Mastering Software, Hardware...
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Blue Bear Sound
New member
A mastering house.......
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Blue Bear, you rock.
Son of Mixerman
Mix Junior
I t took me an hour to write this because I was interuppted by a meeting. Doh!
Small correction for ya Bruce...
Its a room...Mastering Room. If it was the house then it would "home" mastering
Or Mastering Facility. 
There is lot of different packages out there for making cd's some cheap and some not so cheap. If all your doing is making cd for friends or family and you don't have alot of experience then Nero or equivalent will work fine, Fuerio is a pretty cheap alternative that does lots of good things. Concentrate on mixing, most PC based softwares have enough plug-in to make mixes pretty decent all things considered.
If you plan on distributing your cd's then a little more research and education will be required. When I was a young buck I thought mastering was simply transfer to 2 track. I soon discovered that Master can involve alot more and it requires alot of experience in audio and music in general. But if you understand what mastering is and is not, now is a good time to learn and decide if you want to be mastering in the first place. If you do want to start mastering then start using books at first to get an overview. Then find victims to practice on and see how you do in comparison. I know of a few ME's who are more than helpful in nudging. Alot of ME's just start out and learn as they go, upgrading gear and the spaces along the way.
Its not always easy to do and I can tell you that doing it with software is cheap, sometimes harder.
1) Ears - some natural ability to dial in to a frequency.
2) Accurate Monitoring - Monitors that tell you the truth about what your hearing. Not hyped or too sweet. The ear can't work without accuarate monitors. You can acclimate to monitors, buts its painfully long.
3) Room - room as to be designed to not interfere with number 1 and number 2.
4) 1, 2 and 3 are interconnected like Siamese twins.
The cheapest and best Software for mastering is Sony's CD Architect at under $200.
The next closest IMO is Wavelab, which I use in conjunction with CDA because Wavelab is an awesome editor.
There is T-racks and Ozone, depending on what you want and genre matters.
Waves packages run in the 1 thousand to close to 2 thousand dollars and is geared towards high end systems, lots of power in the waves packages.
Hardware is a different subject.
Like everything is life, pick a direction in which you want to go...and then go.
If you have no time and some money, you can gets music done at a real mastering facility for alot less than you used to.
John Scrip of Massive Mastering has great rates and the tools-N-talent required to do absolutely everything.
SoMm
Blue Bear Sound said:
Small correction for ya Bruce...
Its a room...Mastering Room. If it was the house then it would "home" mastering
Or Mastering Facility. There is lot of different packages out there for making cd's some cheap and some not so cheap. If all your doing is making cd for friends or family and you don't have alot of experience then Nero or equivalent will work fine, Fuerio is a pretty cheap alternative that does lots of good things. Concentrate on mixing, most PC based softwares have enough plug-in to make mixes pretty decent all things considered.
If you plan on distributing your cd's then a little more research and education will be required. When I was a young buck I thought mastering was simply transfer to 2 track. I soon discovered that Master can involve alot more and it requires alot of experience in audio and music in general. But if you understand what mastering is and is not, now is a good time to learn and decide if you want to be mastering in the first place. If you do want to start mastering then start using books at first to get an overview. Then find victims to practice on and see how you do in comparison. I know of a few ME's who are more than helpful in nudging. Alot of ME's just start out and learn as they go, upgrading gear and the spaces along the way.
Its not always easy to do and I can tell you that doing it with software is cheap, sometimes harder.
1) Ears - some natural ability to dial in to a frequency.
2) Accurate Monitoring - Monitors that tell you the truth about what your hearing. Not hyped or too sweet. The ear can't work without accuarate monitors. You can acclimate to monitors, buts its painfully long.
3) Room - room as to be designed to not interfere with number 1 and number 2.
4) 1, 2 and 3 are interconnected like Siamese twins.
The cheapest and best Software for mastering is Sony's CD Architect at under $200.
The next closest IMO is Wavelab, which I use in conjunction with CDA because Wavelab is an awesome editor.
There is T-racks and Ozone, depending on what you want and genre matters.
Waves packages run in the 1 thousand to close to 2 thousand dollars and is geared towards high end systems, lots of power in the waves packages.
Hardware is a different subject.
Like everything is life, pick a direction in which you want to go...and then go.
If you have no time and some money, you can gets music done at a real mastering facility for alot less than you used to.
John Scrip of Massive Mastering has great rates and the tools-N-talent required to do absolutely everything.
SoMm
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
House, Suite, Room, Dungeon, Facility... It's all good.
SoMm - Thanx for the props, yo.
(Am I usings "props" and "yo" correctly? I feel old...)
John ;-)
SoMm - Thanx for the props, yo.
(Am I usings "props" and "yo" correctly? I feel old...)
John ;-)
SOn of MIxerman: Yea Ive read about mastering...
I know you can get quite nice results in the mix in PC, but we all know you dont get that "extra boost."
Of the different Softwares you recommended Ive only tried T-racks. Not that happy with,would liek to try someother....n then theres mastering hardware, but about these Im unsure, anybody with experience of using them?
I know you can get quite nice results in the mix in PC, but we all know you dont get that "extra boost."
Of the different Softwares you recommended Ive only tried T-racks. Not that happy with,would liek to try someother....n then theres mastering hardware, but about these Im unsure, anybody with experience of using them?
Son of Mixerman
Mix Junior
Spectacle,
I have T-Racks and its good for a few things because of the flavor, I treat it like a plug-in most of the time.
The other software packages live wavelab are great tools if you have the WAVES mastering specific bundles. But at the price point of WAVES on top of everything else your well past what professional mastering costs. But the tools are absultely pointless unless you have a certain level of experience. And without that experience I wouldn't even consider touching hardware, its a pricy experiment unless you want to professional mastering. If you can't make it punchy with T-racks you won't be able to make it punchy with a dungeon full of expensive gear.
Im sure Mr Scrip can give you a nice and explicit view into the hardware available. None of which is cheap, easily running in the $15,000 range before monitors and amps. Just the console is going to be a feat of engineering because they all are pretty much customized.
Reading about mastering is one thing, application is a whole other ball game. Reading about surgery is different that performing surgery.
What are your goals and intentions with mastering? Iv'e been studying from books and having people like Brad Blackwood help me with critiques. I've spent alot of time at the mastering weboard reading and asking gobs of questions. Glenn Meadows basically told me to just do it, the only way to find out if mastering was for me was to just do it. I did this thing called WOMP2 over at PSW to see if Im getting there. I constantly experimenting. If I didn't have job I would probably would have gotten into a mastering suite to have learned more faster. Mastering is just like anything else, to get good you have to practice and you have to learn from those with the experience in conjunction with some sort of natural ability. Purchasing power does not equate to ability.
Sorry for the mini rant, there is a reason why you take drivers education or go to flight school. How many people would fly if pilot licences came with a McDonalds happy meal?
You want to do home mastering then keep spending money until you find out its not the software.
SoMm
I have T-Racks and its good for a few things because of the flavor, I treat it like a plug-in most of the time.
The other software packages live wavelab are great tools if you have the WAVES mastering specific bundles. But at the price point of WAVES on top of everything else your well past what professional mastering costs. But the tools are absultely pointless unless you have a certain level of experience. And without that experience I wouldn't even consider touching hardware, its a pricy experiment unless you want to professional mastering. If you can't make it punchy with T-racks you won't be able to make it punchy with a dungeon full of expensive gear.
Im sure Mr Scrip can give you a nice and explicit view into the hardware available. None of which is cheap, easily running in the $15,000 range before monitors and amps. Just the console is going to be a feat of engineering because they all are pretty much customized.
Reading about mastering is one thing, application is a whole other ball game. Reading about surgery is different that performing surgery.
What are your goals and intentions with mastering? Iv'e been studying from books and having people like Brad Blackwood help me with critiques. I've spent alot of time at the mastering weboard reading and asking gobs of questions. Glenn Meadows basically told me to just do it, the only way to find out if mastering was for me was to just do it. I did this thing called WOMP2 over at PSW to see if Im getting there. I constantly experimenting. If I didn't have job I would probably would have gotten into a mastering suite to have learned more faster. Mastering is just like anything else, to get good you have to practice and you have to learn from those with the experience in conjunction with some sort of natural ability. Purchasing power does not equate to ability.
Sorry for the mini rant, there is a reason why you take drivers education or go to flight school. How many people would fly if pilot licences came with a McDonalds happy meal?
You want to do home mastering then keep spending money until you find out its not the software.
SoMm
foreverain4
New member
MM, where is your equipment list on your website?
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
regebro said:
Oh... My... Gawd... But hey, who knows... In the right hands, it could happen...
An another note (foreverain4), I don't keep an equipment list... It changes frequently, and I have a nice "loaner program" with other studios in the area... Sometimes I need something they've got, other times they need something I've got. We share gear, we share clients. Symbiosis can be a wonderful thing...
I also don't like to be "pigeonholed" into "Oh, he uses Manley stuff, so it's gonna sound like..." Pick a brand... It's all over. The only clients I have that are really "concerned" about it are from Europe... Never figured out why - I guess mastering places in Europe advertise "the gear" while America advertises "the ear."
Back in the late 90's, I was at the JEM Music Complex - People would come in and say "I want that 'Finalizer' sound..."
...'Finalizer' sound? I had a Finalizer at the time, and REALLY didn't care for it... Ended up using it exclusively as a converter. What the client actually wanted was a squished mix with exaggerated highs and almost no lower mids. I'm sure that TC Electronics wouldn't want that known as the "Finalizer Sound."
On top of that, much of my analog gear (including my monitors) is modified. Some quite heavily. I have an amazing optical compressor just off to my left that looks EXACTLY like an Art Pro VLA (for good reason!) - The VLA being quite a nice comp to begin with, a couple tweaks and you've got serious, SERIOUS gear. I'm surprised that ART hasn't caught on to the mods yet...
That all being said, mastering is 90% experience & technique - I can use the greatest gear available and get Master "A" - However, give me Nuendo or ProTools and a good set of plugs and I'll get 95% of Master "A" every time. It's all in the technique. That's why I'm not a big fan of "mastering" programs... None of them are capable of doing what I need them to do in the first place (long story there... I'll work on a book).
And, as anyone can tell, I'm a BIG advocate of making the most of what you've got. Don't get me wrong - There is indeed BAD gear out there... But for the most part, I've heard good engineers make great recordings on mediocre gear. I've also heard mediocre engineers make crappy recordings on wonderful gear.
So, much of the "base" of my gear is indeed "off-the-shelf" stuff. Some stock, some modified, some old, some new. My main DAW is Nuendo 2. My main plugs are the UAD series. The hardware changes - there's always an optical tube compressor or two lying around, tube preamps, a couple channels of parametrics, etc. Other than that, anything goes...
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foreverain4
New member
do you have the new fairchild plugin yet for the uad card?
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
I have every UAD plug I know of. The Fairchild is pretty cool... I know I won't find a lot of use for it, but I would've bought it on principle anyway. Companies like UAD don't come around much - Getting that sort of quality for the price is VERY rare in the audio industry. I will continue to purchase every plug the put out as long as the quality stays up, if for no other purpose than supporting that quality.
John
John
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Son of a mixerman:
I Know mastering takes very much practice and patience. The reason why I wan to master is cuz I want total control of my music. As it comes to hardware it dosnt have to bee very costy at all. In fact ive seen prices way below the ones of expensive softwares and plug ins.
I think T-racks might have some good features, In Im glad i got a hold of it, cuz since I brought it, I can tould take the mixdowns a bit further. My intention with masterting is basically just to try n make my music sound as good as possible. its all for the music. And as for mastering houses,unfortunately,I havnt got the money to send my songs to mastering.
I Know mastering takes very much practice and patience. The reason why I wan to master is cuz I want total control of my music. As it comes to hardware it dosnt have to bee very costy at all. In fact ive seen prices way below the ones of expensive softwares and plug ins.
I think T-racks might have some good features, In Im glad i got a hold of it, cuz since I brought it, I can tould take the mixdowns a bit further. My intention with masterting is basically just to try n make my music sound as good as possible. its all for the music. And as for mastering houses,unfortunately,I havnt got the money to send my songs to mastering.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Yes - those are important -- equally important, if not more, is that the mastering person has objective ears to your project.spectacle said:
Then you will fail. Period. Your ears are not objective to your own project - they simply can't be, you've worked long an a project within the sonic confines of a certain signal and monitoring chain - so you are in no position to objectively judge the way your project REALLY sounds compared to the way it should sound from a fidelity perspective.spectacle said:
I beleive you lose control of your project sonically, right after you complete mixing (unless you take a really really really long break from it, coming back with fresh ears months later). You've tracked with gear and monitors you're used to and made it sound like you want, you've mixed those tracks and presumably made mixes that sound good and translate well -- that's about as far as you can go at that point with your ears.
How can you objectively analyze the mix in the same environment you've just mixed in? (because why didn't you just mix it that way to begin with!! The reason is that the mix is a product of your recording and monitoring path, not to mention your ears and you can only be a one-man show for so long into a project before subjectivity sets-in.
Anyways - I'm not spouting laws here - simply what I beleive best practices are (and the reasons why they're "best practices"!) You should do whatever works for you!
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foreverain4
New member
BB,
i dont think he is planning on commercially releasing the project. in this case, i dont think it is totally neccessary to send out to a mastering house....
i dont think he is planning on commercially releasing the project. in this case, i dont think it is totally neccessary to send out to a mastering house....
foreverain4
New member
perhaps we should use a different word in this case. lets call it "enhancing" the project. this way we dont keep getting into these "mastering" arguments.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
I'm neither arguing nor saying he MUST send it to a mastering house....foreverain4 said:
I summed it up in the last line of my post --
Blue Bear Sound said:
foreverain4
New member
Blue Bear Sound said:
understood...
IT IS DIFFICULT THOUGH
...yeh, i've been trying to learn this for 2 years now.
My stuff is "enhanced", still not professional.
You will not be a professional unless you go at it everyday for about 5 or more years.
But, if you work at it, you will notice progress.
People will always tell you to send it to a professional.
I am the same way. I am a graphic designer, and web sites should be done by DESIGNERS, not by kids at home. But those kids are getting better and better.
They learn how to SEE. (ok enough of that bs)
anyway, the main thing is compression. That is the one thing, that the "natural" will do better than us. I swear, the numbers/settings don't mean sh!t.
How much and when to turn knobs isn't learned, it's a feeling. It's ears.
Perhaps if I had gotten into music at infancy, I'd have those ears...but then I wouldn't be a bedroom dj.
The real reason i posted is I wanted to know WHY no one ever mentions SPARK XL, when they list mastering programs. Does it suck THAT much? I mean it IS TC ELECTRONICS. AM I ....the only one that uses it? hmmm, is it why my stuff is merely enhanced?
...yeh, i've been trying to learn this for 2 years now.
My stuff is "enhanced", still not professional.
You will not be a professional unless you go at it everyday for about 5 or more years.
But, if you work at it, you will notice progress.
People will always tell you to send it to a professional.
I am the same way. I am a graphic designer, and web sites should be done by DESIGNERS, not by kids at home. But those kids are getting better and better.
They learn how to SEE. (ok enough of that bs)
anyway, the main thing is compression. That is the one thing, that the "natural" will do better than us. I swear, the numbers/settings don't mean sh!t.
How much and when to turn knobs isn't learned, it's a feeling. It's ears.
Perhaps if I had gotten into music at infancy, I'd have those ears...but then I wouldn't be a bedroom dj.
The real reason i posted is I wanted to know WHY no one ever mentions SPARK XL, when they list mastering programs. Does it suck THAT much? I mean it IS TC ELECTRONICS. AM I ....the only one that uses it? hmmm, is it why my stuff is merely enhanced?
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Here I go agreeing with Blue Bear again -
Beyond mastering, I'm a musician also - Whenever I feel the need to master my own stuff, I call another engineer in to whack me in the side of the head during the session when I miss stuff that would otherwise be totally obvious to me.
In other words, if you want to master your own stuff, at the very least do the following:
A. Never, Never, EVER, EVER master on the same system you recorded on. AND:
B. Try to bring another (trusted) set of ears in with you.
Your mileage may vary.
John
Beyond mastering, I'm a musician also - Whenever I feel the need to master my own stuff, I call another engineer in to whack me in the side of the head during the session when I miss stuff that would otherwise be totally obvious to me.
In other words, if you want to master your own stuff, at the very least do the following:
A. Never, Never, EVER, EVER master on the same system you recorded on. AND:
B. Try to bring another (trusted) set of ears in with you.
Your mileage may vary.
John