Mastering Monitors

[littledog]

That reminds me of a friend's party I went to. Some chick kept trying to talk to me. She could hardly follow the conversation and was saying the stupidest things. I thought she was drunk off her ass.

Then my friend asked where her beer was, but then remembered aloud that she doesn't drink. I thought to myself, "She doesn't drink and she's acting this way? This must be one of the dumbest bimbos I've ever met."

I started talking with this bimbo about my job and I mentioned how I hated working with mesh equations and finite element analysis because the stuff was such a pain to figure out. This chick actually started intelligibly commenting on finite element analysis.

It turned out this dumb bimbo was actually a missile scientist for the U.S. Navy!

Smart girl. Zero communication skills.

Well, why didn't you just say so! I'm convinced!

Uhhhh....


What was the question?

 

[Son of Mixerman]

LOL@Lopp

Engineering and scientist types fall short on communication on subjects outside of their area of interest. When I get home I have to turn off my engineer/scientist switch othwise my wife look at me like Im speaking in tongues. But when its time to head into the studio I don't talk at all. I need to get out of system engineering and do some audio so see ya laters

SoMm

 

[barefoot]

Engineering and scientist types fall short on communication on subjects outside of their area of interest.

Well, I guess I fit both bills since I’m educated in science and now work as an engineer. Still, I’ve found that I can speak to anyone about most anything. My friends all tend to be artists, writers, musicians and the like. But maybe that just proves your point, because I don’t socialize with anyone from work. They’re all too fucking boring.

barefoot

 

[DigitMus]

Back on Topic

Sorry to drag this thread back on-topic, but if you're going to try mastering at home and need monitors in the $3K range, check out the Earthworks Sigma 6.2s (passive) or ADAM S-2As (active). I use ADAM S4As in my 40 X 38 X 16 room. FWIW my "mastering" chain is :
AES/EBU out of mixer to Z-Systems Q2 equalizer, to Crane Song HEDD192 for D/A conversion, to a pair of Crane Song Trakkers for compression, back to HEDD for A/D conversion (& tape, triode and/or pentode emulation if needed) , to Alesis Mastelrlink for editing, sequencing and CD burning. It ain't exactly a megabucks mastering house, but it beats the pants off of any cheapo mastering service the local studios and duplication houses provide.

Scott

 

[barefoot]

Re: Back on Topic

...in the $3K range, check out the Earthworks Sigma 6.2s (passive) or ADAM S-2As (active). I use ADAM S4As....

$3000 for a mini monitor with those drivers. Fancy box, but they're still just mid line Vifa drivers. Also, the jury is definitely still out on those dual concentric tweeters – and the verdict doesn’t look good to me. I wouldn’t use them.

I don't think the Eton ribbons and woofers in your ADAM’s are a great choice either.

Sorry DigitMus, don't mean to dump on your gear choices and I hope you don't take offense, but I think they're a bit overpriced for what you get. System design and integration is extremely important, but the final product can't be any better than the raw components.

barefoot

 

[littledog]

Well, barefoot, I would be the last to EVER get into a technical arguement with you, but if you do have a "blind' spot, it might just be in that some things actually ARE superior to the sum of their parts. (Ever try to swim in a tank of hydrogen and oxygen?)

Now i realize as an engineer/designer you can probably give me a lot of excellent reasons why you think that that can't be true when it comes to speakers. (Yeah, i know, my H2O analogy sucked. That was just for amusement value.)

I can only tell you that I hear what I hear, which may also suck as an argument, but it's what i ultimately have to go on.

In the case of the ADAM's, a whole lot of people who's ears i really respect have RAVED about them as some of the best boxes they have ever heard in that price range. Not just a few - a LOT!

And the implication of your statement is you haven't actually heard them... you are just judging them on their component parts and descriptions of their design. Sorry, but not including a double blind listening test is a decidedly "non-scientific" method of evaluation.

Maybe us "ears" types are just deluding ourselves, and you can show me the specs to prove it. (By the way, sometime allow me to introduce you to Mr. Ethan Winer) But you know us uneducated 'ears' types... we'll defend our unscientific superstitious mystical bullshit to the grave!

 

[barefoot]

littledog,

You’re right that I’ve haven’t heard the ADAMs. I should have said that explicitly. But I have heard all these drivers either on their own or as part of other systems. I know their specs well. And in the case of the woofers, I’ve designed speakers using them. I’m not saying they’re bad. Relative to those in Mackies and the like, these components are very good. And I’ll certainly grant that the ADAM designers are probably far more skilled at achieving the best possible performance out of these drivers than I was. Still, at this price, I personally would expect more.

I guessed that someone might bring up the "whole is greater than the sum of its parts" argument. In the case of loudspeakers this argument just doesn’t hold. Raw drivers have their inherent limitations and nothing about the box, the crossovers, nor the amplifiers can change this. The system can be designed such that it allows them to work their best and integrate their best with the other drivers. But the drivers themselves are ultimately the sound radiators and their inherent flaws become part of the acoustic signal. You can’t get around it.

Superstition?. Oh yeah, I know about that. I’ve tried to sell audio equipment to people.

Am I saying that beliving the ADAMs are good is a superstition? No, relative to most I’m sure they’re very good. It’s just the price versus "potential performance" that I’m quibbling about.

barefoot

 

[littledog]

Am I saying that beliving the ADAMs are good is a superstition? No, relative to most I’m sure they’re very good. It’s just the price versus "potential performance" that I’m quibbling about.

barefoot

Well, in spite of the tone of my last post, I really DO respect your expertise, Barefoot!

So while I don't discount some of the top Pro's rave reviews, you have definitely given me food for thought.

I am curious, then. Is there a particualr model monitor in that price range that you think IS worthy of it's price tag? It would certainly be interesting to do an A/B test between the two!

 

[DigitMus]

Barefoot -
No offense taken to your comments. I'm not a mastering engineer, nor do I pretend to be, but I do find myself in the position of having to do some kind of 2-buss treatment of projects that will NEVER see a real mastering engineer. The Earthworks Sigma refernce was based on opinions from people whose ears I have come to respect. The ADAMs are my personal choice. I have no doubt there are better speakers out there, but my recommendation was for those that are widely available in the U.S. and with a good return policy if you don't like 'em. I've heard an awful lot (take that phrase both ways ) of the under $3000/pair monitors that are widely available here and I don't think many, if any, of the usual suspects one hears about on these forums measure up to the ADAMs. I would love to do a blind A/B test with anything you think would be better in the same price/availability range. I certainly don't think my choice is perfect, just the best of a crowded field so far. This is just an opinion, after all; and you know what they say about opinions .

Scott