Mastering Monitors

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justharold

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Hi,

I am lookingto get a second set of monitors primarily for Mastering. I currently own a pair of Mackie HR824's that I use for mixing. Would a full-range system be best? I'm hoping to keep it around $1000, if possible.

ANY suggestions would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Harold
 
Maybe one of the Blue Sky systems but at $1000 you aren't going to find anything all that much better than the Mackies, just different.

Add another 0 and you can get into mastering system territory..
 
Mastering monitors? Your budget is a good $21000 short.....

THESE are mastering monitors ($22K/pr!)
 
Monitors typically found in Mastering rooms:

Dunlavy SC-VI ($24000) or SC IV/A ($8000)

Pro-Ac Response 2.5 ($4500)

Tannoy dual 15 Studio monitors ($8000)

B & W Nautilus 801 ($11,000) Brad Blackwoods :)

Dynaudio BM15A $2500 (nearfields)

Quested VH3208 $5000-$6000 newer models are more expensive.

PMC 1B-1 $5000-$6000

Focal/JMLabs $5000-$6000

Revel Speakers $1500 used and hard to find

Martin-Logan $5000-$6000

Alot of the ones your not used to seeing are audiophile speakers that are capable and often times share the same ideas and level of quality, but the price is still high.

Mackies are nearfields and probably are not going to give you what you truely desire. Its takes alot more learning and experiementing to mastering anything on nearfields, lots of people do it, but its not ideal. If you plan on mastering in a control room, the Dynaudio and Mackie 824's are as cheap as it gets. A mastering specific monitor is usually 8 to 14 feet away from your listening position in the newer designed rooms. I think the Blue Sky would be your best bet at the moment as an alternative to the Mackies.

SoMm
 
As has been mentioned, $1,000 won't get you anything better than what you already have. For that money you are looking at a sideways move at best, and the dough might be better spent some other way.

Consider instead getting yourself some high end headphones (if you don't have them already), a boombox with line inputs, and maybe a super crappy 4" speaker for mono listening. You'd probably get better results working with your Mackies and then listening back on a lot of different systems, including cars, than spending $1,000 on another pair of speakers.

In short, if you are not satisfied with the Mackies for mastering, nothing else remotely close to that price range will make you happy either.
 
Very helpful advice from SonicA.

As usual, a completely snobbish and unsupportive piece of bollocks from Blue Bear who doesn't seem to have noticed what this forum is called. What do you think you're doing on an amateur forum saying that if you can't spend $22k you might as well not bother?

This is not prorec, its homerec, and people need encouragement, not arsey comments. Nobody is kidding themselves that they can make commercial releases, they just want to have fun and do the best they can.

I know that you're a well respected contributor and that you've forgotten more than I'll ever know about recording, mixing and mastering music but I feel that your constant dissing of anything other than professional level quality is out of touch with most of us happy amateurs who get a kick out of every step of the journey.

If you can't help, don't post.
 
*yawn*

:rolleyes:

Are you here to fucking learn something Garry, or to piss in the wind about which is better, Behringer or Samson monitors?

The point of my post was to give the guy a hint that maybe there's more to this "mastering" than he seems to think.... if he reads that monitors for mastering are fairly pricy, he may catch-on that it's not really a DIY process and try to learn more about it....

Or you can tell him to pick-up a pair of Truths and have at it -- which do you think will get him better results - trying unsuccessfully to "master" on shitty monitors, or learning something REAL about the process and adapting it to his needs....???
 
Now, now...boys! Behave!

Seriously, I do appreciate the posts and the responses to my foolish questions.

I am well aware of the Mastering Houses out there. In fact, I have used some in the past. And, just to let you know, I have been somewhat less than impressed.

You see, I am a full-time (as in, "this is how I make my living") musician. A professional singer, to be more precise. Am I famous? No. (Although, there are several thousand folks out there who own my albums who might disagree.)

I started doing my own recordings because (1) I enjoy the challenge. And (2) I believe that I can do as good or better than anywhere I have previously recorded. (If for no other reason than that I can do re-takes FOREVER... and not run up a huge studio bill!)

Our newest released CD was my first recoding job. I have learned MUCH since then, but (all in all) it wasn't bad. I then sent it off to be mastered. The result was good. Just nothing that I couldn't have done myself.

Obviously, I don't know everything. That is why I am here. However, just to let you know, I am not a kid either. Personally, I think that most "recording guys" have bought into this idea of "You can't Master...so don't bother" or "You have to have $100,000,000 speakers, or you are wasting your time", etc. (You do realize that the only people who even own $100,000,000 speakers are Mastering Guys, who won't listen to your stuff anyways...unless you pay them big bucks...)

Seriously, much of this post was "tongue-in-cheek". I mean, I know I will never even approach what those guys know...and their equipment...and what they can do...

But...then again...maybe I can...

At least I'll have a good time tryin' (with my ol' Mackies and my newly acquired KRK V-6's along with the S8 sub)

Rantingly,
Harold
 
Harold,

I own KRK V8s (with sub), along with a well-designed, good-sounding control room, and the last thing I would consider is that I'm equipped for professional mastering....

You can tweak all you want - but that's not mastering..... I was serious when I suggested you pick up Bob Katz' book....

Unlike my "buddy" Garry over here, you will be enlightened....!

Cheers,
Bruce
 
Good post Harold. Where can we listen to your music?

And Blue Bear, well, :) I 've got this mastering business sussed:

1. Download one of the free "mastering" programme demo's so it doesn't cost any money. Some of them go quiet for a second every so often but I don't think anybody would notice
2. Move all the knobs around until it's very squashy. Very very squashy, ever so squashy, so the meter is at -0.1 the whole time.
3. Make the drums louder when the singer's out of tune
4. Make the drums very quiet when my bass goes out of time, so that nobody can tell.
5. It's very important to make sure the completed masterpiece "translates". This means going round to my mate's house with the CD and seeing if it sounds any good. As long as you've followed steps 1 and 2 it will (3 and 4 are less important). My mate is the only one who listens to my stuff so this is adequate (although I have a feeling that he only listens when I'm there - I think he plays his Simply Red CD's all the other times)

I think steps 3 and 4 might be called "mixing" but it's all the same sort of thing.

Seriously, your post in response to mine was considerably more helpful. The only reason I haven't read Bob K's book is that after 4 weeks on order Amazon still haven't delivered it and I can't find it in any bookshop in London.

For me a major joy of this whole thing is precisely the learning experience and my mindset is precisely the same as Harold's. I've had disappointing results from "mastering experts", doubtless my fault for using the wrong ones, and whilst acknowledging that I will never get professional results I can get a big kick out of doing things better now than I did six months ago- the joy is in the journey.

Cheers

Garry
 
For mastering, the Bob Katz book is required reading. It's packed with his knowledge and experience, quite a brilliant book really. It will help more than your new monitors will.
 
Blue Bear Bruce, and all (Methinks that sounds rather cool!)

Thank you again for your replies. I do have Bob Katz's book on order.

Here is my theory...

My second set of monitors is primarily my second set of "ears". I just wanted a second good set of reference points. I think it is too easy (in mixing too) to get locked into the way one set of monitors sound and running with them.

So, I do the mixes. Burn them to CD. Listen to them for a few days on everything I can possibly find (car system, home stereo, cheesy boomboxes, etc.) and then I leave it alone for awhile. I then listen to good production stuff (of the same genre) in a more relaxed and casual environment, just to get used to the way they sound...and feel.

Then I make my attempt at mastering (albeit weak). And, pretty much, start the whole procedure over...

There you have it. In a nutshell.

Wish me luck.

I will, quite possibly, quit somewhere in the middle and send it off to someone anyway...

Harold
 
Keep in mind - one of the biggest problems with "self-mastering" is that you can't see the forest thru the trees" - ie. your ears aren't objective enough to any issues because you've worked on it.

The fresh ears of a skilled ME are the biggest advantage of mastering - and there's no way around this point in the DIY world. Period.
 
I still think you could gain the necessary objectivity through hypnosis.

I had this hypnotist this one time convince me I was a dog, and I started barking and sniffing and pooping all over things.

I suppose I could be hypnotized in to believing I was mixing/finalizing someone else's song, rathter than my own.
 
I appreciate that this fresh set of ears point is critical. The hard part is that they need to be expert ears. The other hard part is finding them. You know when I looked through the local trade press for a mastering house recently, every single advert had "TC Electronics Finalizer" printed in big letters - seems to be the magic word like "Engineer with Pro Tools" figures in every recording studio ad.

I noticed that Bob Katz is associated with TC - there's a summary of his views on their web site.

Jeez, makes your head swim. :rolleyes:
 
But in his book he seems to be very honest about the gear he uses, and it's a lot more than just the TC Finalizer. It's not fair to imply that he is just another Finalizer mastering guy.

Many one stop shop mastering/cd manufacturing outfits will just run your mix through a Finalizer and call it done. So I feel it's best to find a mastering engineer that is not working out of the same offices as a CD manufacturing company.

Also, I think there is a time element involved. In other words, if you finish mixing your album, and then a fairly significant amount of time pass before doing your home mastering, you can come back to it with fresher ears.
 
I seem to be making a right old hash of posting on this thread! Never meant to imply that about Mr Katz, I was being cynical about the so called mastering houses who do exactly what you said.

The article I was referring to, which is helpful to people like me - i.e. those who Amazon seem to feel should not be allowed to read his book, is here:

http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/katz_1999_secret_mastering.pdf
 
I would hope the lesson learned from bad mastering experiences is not "I can screw it up just as easily myself" but "gee, maybe I should use a real mastering house next time."

If you insist on doing it yourself then you should probably spend the $1k on bass traps and acoustic treatment. Maybe even have an acoustics specialist come in and shoot your control room.

I'm not a purist by any means and if someones goal is simply to put out a demo for friends or club owners then by all means 'master' it yourself. But if you are trying to compete with radio quality productions and want to master it yourself then you have a fool for a client.
 
For $1350 you can buy the Scan Speak MTM-18 kit. This will get you well beyond the performance of the typical budget monitor.

And here are a couple more that strike me well:
Mentor 6
Aria 6 RW
(Zalytron makes exceptionally good cabinets, btw)

These kits just require a screwdriver, a soldering iron, and a couple hours of your time. You would have to spend twice the price to get a retail speaker with this level of performance.

Thomas
 
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