Mastering houses

  • Thread starter Thread starter Richard Monroe
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MasterOfMasters said:
insteed of trying to put everyone down why dont you help us out?
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I *AM* helping everyone out.... you're passing yourself off as someone who can do "mastering magic" and I'm setting the record straight by saying you can't - based on the clips I heard posted at your site....

If you're going to make outlandish claims, then you better have the goods to back 'em up, or you can expect to get called on it.........

See SofM's above post regarding "mastering engineers" (notice the quotes) who use an aphex as their primary tool.... perfect example....

I have a reasonably well-equipped studio and don't consider it even close to being viable for proper mastering.
 
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I'm not pissed off... just wary of unrealistic claims!

His post made me curious so I checked out his clips to see what he could do.... and from those clips I could tell he is not capable of "mastering magic" (his words), so I called him on it!
 
Blue Bear Sound said:

I have a reasonably well-equipped studio and don't consider it even close to being viable for proper mastering.
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The mastering is pretty good ( to me). BTW I listened to it with all kinds of processing crap strapped across my Stereo Mains by accident. Comps, EQ, Limiting, etc.

At first I was like damn !! Then I caught the problems. LOL

Still working on material though.

Malcolm
 
FYI Bear in the big blue house those clips you heard where NOT masterd by me but by; Glenn Meadows at MasterFonics in Nashville, TN the same place same guy that masterd Shania Twain's "come on Over" Send me a non-mastered track I'll master it and up-load it we can hear it.

did you read the part it's free?

Man, there are others in the world, but I dont know must of hit a nerve
 
Actually, we've sort of split up the duties between me and the wife/executive producer. She's considering about 3 firms for some legal support, duplication and distribution. The mastering is my gig. Thanks, Blue Bear, you probably saved me another gear search. It's interesting to note that ADA doesn't give an easy link to a gear list. Mastering, from what little I understand of it, is gear intensive, as well as requiring great ears.
I don't have good ears, so I have to depend on people I trust who do. Well, Littledog, my lead guitarist is in Portland Oregon, and might care. Pretty much, I won't be looking at anybody with less than $100,000 worth of gear. Thanks for the links. Any more will be gratefully accepted. Of course, I'll be guided by the advice of my tracking consultant and the mixing engineer as well, but in the end, it's my call. God, being a neophyte producer is fun- and intimidating!-Richie

P.S. So Master of masters (having judged at the U.S. open in karate, I cringe a little)- post up your gear list. Are you a mastering house? If so, with what?
 
Richard Monroe said:

I don't have good ears, so I have to depend on people I trust who do. Well, Littledog, my lead guitarist is in Portland Oregon, and might care. Pretty much, I won't be looking at anybody with less than $100,000 worth of gear.
P.S. So Master of masters (having judged at the U.S. open in karate, I cringe a little)- post up your gear list. Are you a mastering house? If so, with what?
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There are many MEs that have great gear but a terrible ear or may not be familiar with your style of music. There are also many high profile MEs that couldn't give a crap about service to anyone short of a major label and will most likely not take an interest in your project beyond making a few quick bucks.

It's really a pity that some people have to make their decisions based on a gear list or price alone. Mastering is a SKILL based on years of experience, taste, a great ear, and knowing how and when to use equipment not just owning it. Why not base your decision not only on gear but how many years they have been mastering, their client list, knowledgable questions, or even simply how their product sounds?
 
Sorry, no matter how good your ears may be, you cannot do professional mastering without a boatload of gear. That's the *minimum* requirement. Once that is out of the way, then the mastering engineer must prove he has the skills and the ears. Mastering is not like tracking. The best mastering engineer in the world cannot do even fair work with cheap gear. So don't whine. Either post up a complete gear list or admit that a mastering engineer is not a mastering house.-Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
Sorry, no matter how good your ears may be, you cannot do professional mastering without a boatload of gear. That's the *minimum* requirement. Once that is out of the way, then the mastering engineer must prove he has the skills and the ears. Mastering is not like tracking. The best mastering engineer in the world cannot do even fair work with cheap gear. So don't whine. Either post up a complete gear list or admit that a mastering engineer is not a mastering house.-Richie
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You have it backwards, I'm not whining. I'm simply pointing out the error in your thinking. But here is a partial list of the gear that I use as I have no reason to be ashamed.

Pro Tools HD2 192K Digital Workstation
Plugins include:
Spectra Foo Metering
Waves Mastering Bundle
Waves Restoration Bundle
Focusrite red EQs
Bomb Factory LA2 and 1176 compressors
a bunch of other plugins that I don't use for mastering

Mac G4 with dual gig processors 1 gig memory and dual monitors
Weiss EQ1 Digital Equalizer
Weiss DS1 Digital Compressor/De-esser
Crane Song STC-8 Analog Compressor
Urei LA-22 De-esser
Waves L2 Limiter
t.c. electronic finalizer plus
Sony PCM-R500 DAT
Alesis ADAT
Dynaudio acoutic BM15As with BX30 sub
Argosy Dual 15 console
Digidrive firewire drive
Dell Dimension XPS-T500 PC
Sound Forge
CD Architect
Emagic Waveburner Pro
Harmon/Kardon CD player
Yamaha CDR400tx
A great listening room

Will also be ordering a crane song hedd unit shortly

Total cost somewhere around $40-$50,000 (sorry I didn't meet your $100,000 criteria for a "real" mastering engineer)

More important than all of the above here are some links to projects that I have done:

List on Yahoo

AMG Music Guide

Now why don't you stop being a superficial gear snob and ask a real question about mastering?
 
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Actually, I'm neither superficial nor a gear snob, and a real mastering engineer only needs knowledge and good ears. A mastering house needs gear. When you're looking at something like mastering sight unseen, the gear list helps to weed out the pikers pretty fast. You're equipped for basic mastering, so I'll take the time to listen to your work. I couldn't possibly listen to the work of everybody who thinks they're a mastering house. I don't mean to be insulting, but I've corresponded with a number of confused wienies lately, and the gear list shows whether somebody is serious, and whether they have the basic tools. I understand it won't indicate whether they are any good. Frankly, 80% or so of the people who think they are ME's have an overactive fantasy life.-Richie
 
MasterOfMasters said:
FYI Bear in the big blue house those clips you heard where NOT masterd by me but by; Glenn Meadows at MasterFonics in Nashville, TN the same place same guy that masterd Shania Twain's "come on Over" Send me a non-mastered track I'll master it and up-load it we can hear it.

did you read the part it's free?

Man, there are others in the world, but I dont know must of hit a nerve
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Sure - I'd like to hear what you can do... I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but somehow I don't think I will be...

Email me your mailing address and I'll send a hi-res disc off to you....
 
Richard Monroe said:
Frankly, 80% or so of the people who think they are ME's have an overactive fantasy life.-Richie
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I agree. But I wouldn't put Tom in that category of having an overactive fantasy life.

I think gear is important, but its only important in the context of the engineer running it. The gear I believe should include the room itself which is equally important as monitoring. Good monitors in a bad room to me is like having a good room with radio shack speakers. Actually you can get around a bad room easier than getting around bad monitors. Anyway...
There are lots of things to consider when finding a person and place to master. I would never dis a guy who is trying, for all you know that person could very well be as talented as Glenn Meadows(no longer at Masterphonics) Bob Ludwig, Dave Collins and Tom Volpicelli. If your throwing your material into the wind without attending the session you are at risk of dissappoinment. Your fault not the ME's. Most ME's are willing to chat about expectations and results openly to make sure your happy and they learn more about you and your tastes. More often than not, you would be impressed by a majority of mid level ME's just because of that additional set of experienced and alternate set of ears. But there is the chance you might have Vlado the Impaler or other Mafia member do your stuff, unless the label forces you into the loudness wars you don't have to fight.

One thing Im always willing to bet, if someone has a dedicated room and decent monitors, they are going to be better than someone with Wavelab and nearfields in a bedroom.

I think this BBS has seen its share of wannabe mastering trolls and I think thats the root of paranoia. But Ive seen the influx of posters like Fletcher and Tom Volpicelli who are in a different league of the game than a majority of the people who use this board.

Bruce call it as he see's it, he the best BS meter we have here and he usually weeds out the trolls right off. He likes to get to the matter without alot of foreplay. I think that there are occasions where people come here thinking all the members here are wannabes and therefore one bun short of a Big Mac when it comes down to it. It can be a shock when you suddenly get reamed by Fletcher, Aaron Carey, Littledog, Bruce...oh and lets not forget....Sonusman, Sjoko2 and Shailat.

Even the lowlest newbie can offer simple words of wisdom, though I don't do it often.

SoMm
 
Son of Mixerman said:
I agree. But I wouldn't put Tom in that category of having an overactive fantasy life. ...

SoMm
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SoMm -

Thanks for the very kind words, but to be honest I wouldn't put myself at the level of Bob Ludwig, etc (at least this year).

As Avis slogan goes, We're number 2, but we try harder.

To draw an analogy with this topic of putting skills at a level beneath the more material aspects of the creation of the art, I wonder what some people would have said if they had the chance to meet Jimi Hendrix at the end of his performance at Woodstock.

"Hey Jimi, nice guitar!"
"How much did it cost?"
 
Just to clarify....

MasterOfMasters and MasteringHouse are not the same person, are they???

My comments were directed SOLELY to MasterOfMasters.........


In addition - just to expand on a point SofM made.... there are many people with a little bit of recording gear and a smidgen of experience who are under great misconceptions of what the process of mastering entails. They buy themselves a multiband compressor plug or a Finalizer and then proceed to call themselves mastering engineers.

I strongly advise people to be careful when searching for a mastering house - at the very least they should get some samples and further, should try and attend the session as much as possible. "There's a sucker born every minute" and it's very easy for rookies to pull the wool over people's eyes with respect to mastering because many don't know or underrstand what's involved.
 
Re: Just to clarify....

Blue Bear Sound said:
MasterOfMasters and MasteringHouse are not the same person, are they???

My comments were directed SOLELY to MasterOfMasters.........


In addition - just to expand on a point SofM made.... there are many people with a little bit of recording gear and a smidgen of experience who are under great misconceptions of what the process of mastering entails. They buy themselves a multiband compressor plug or a Finalizer and then proceed to call themselves mastering engineers.

I strongly advise people to be careful when searching for a mastering house - at the very least they should get some samples and further, should try and attend the session as much as possible. "There's a sucker born every minute" and it's very easy for rookies to pull the wool over people's eyes with respect to mastering because many don't know or underrstand what's involved.
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No BB, not the same person.

In lieu of attending the session, I would recommend that the ME provide a sample of their work on YOUR material. There are quite a few good mastering engineers that may not be in traveling distance. To discount them because of geography isn’t always in your best interest. Most mastering houses (other than the majors) will do this over the Internet now.

I would suggest giving them your mix plus a commercial reference track to demonstrate what you’re shooting for. Then compare the results of the different samples with an objective ear or a blind test on several systems to see how well it translates.

As an engineer I have attended some mastering sessions where everything sounded great, then when I brought the disc home was very dissapointed either because of ear fatigue, not being familiar with their monitoring system, room, etc.

I prefer having the option of listening over several days, making tweaks, suggestions, etc. and then picking the best results. It's difficult to do this by constantly attending sessions and can start to be costly. Having the ability to listen to samples over the Internet is a virtual way to attend a session.
 
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Re: Re: Just to clarify....

masteringhouse said:
In lieu of attending the session, I would recommend that the ME provide a sample of their work on YOUR material. There are quite a few good mastering engineers that may not be in traveling distance. To discount them because of geography isn’t always in your best interest. Most mastering houses (other than the majors) will do this over the Internet now.
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Yes - actually I agree completely.... I should have said "IF you can attend the session, do so!"
 
The ME I talked to said that he didnt allow people to attent the session because it was long and boring. People tended to slow him down since they would be asking questions and distracting him.
 
tjohnston said:
The ME I talked to said that he didnt allow people to attent the session because it was long and boring. People tended to slow him down since they would be asking questions and distracting him.
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It may seem like he's being a bit snotty, but think about it. You're trying to listen closely to something and you have the background noise of people talking, laughing or asking you where they can smoke a blunt.

Once I had someone with me who had a nervous habit of tapping a pen. Not paying attention to him I was trying to find the clicks in the track.

Some studios charge extra for attending sessions for reasons like this.
 
I send out quite a number of discs per year to be mastered, and I usually recommend going to a place where you can attend, as sometimes there are artistic decisions (like timing between tracks or crossfades) that could only be known by the mastering engineer if they were a mind reader.

who ever said attending a mastering session automatically assumes you are going to be a noisy and/or smelly distraction? Most people who are serious about their music can keep their mouths shut for a few hours.
 
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