Mastering bootlegs

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Rozzysean

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Anybody have experience mastering amateur made, stereo bootleg live concerts? A friend of mine as crazy little homemade rig where he broke down some AKG condenser body mikes to fit into earpieces and and record two channel bootlegs into a small DAT player. I'm trying to figure out the best way to master this stuff, but unfortunately, I'm working with limited software (sound studio) and I've only worked with studio recording before. Anybody have tips on how to make this stuff sound as good as it can? Thank for any help.

-Rozzy
 
You're going to catch a lot of flack for asking this. Bootlegging is illegal, dude. It's just like software piracy. :mad:
 
The Grateful Dead sure suffered from this.

IMO, live concerts, as long as there's not a product to be sold from that show, should be able to be bootlegged. What if you wanted to get a recording of a show in your home town, but the official tour DVD was from the LA show? Tough luck, kid.
 
Seafroggys said:
The Grateful Dead sure suffered from this.

IMO, live concerts, as long as there's not a product to be sold from that show, should be able to be bootlegged. What if you wanted to get a recording of a show in your home town, but the official tour DVD was from the LA show? Tough luck, kid.
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Nope. If the band says no recording (and they always do) that's their call. It's their material, their livelihood. Buy the LA DVD.
 
Bands sure are different here. Some don't allow bootlegs, some do and some even encourage it, as long as they are not sold.

Die Ärzte is one of those bootleg supporting band which even provide the webspace for their bootlegs: http://www.kill-them-all.de/

Another example is Gov'd Mule which also allow bootlegging, but they don't let them any real market, since they record every single concert theirself and sell them as FLAC downloads, really good quality, not that "wrecked during mastering" stuff you might know from their studio albums. http://www.muletracks.com/

Concerning the actual question, the quality begins with good micing, and that rarely happens with bootlegs. You really can't fix some recording mic'ed with some tiny pocked devices from distance, during mastering.
If it's at least "rehearsal room quality", you usually can do some EQ'ing and might be able to fix some positioning (provided it was a stereo mic) with mid/side processing, but with "in front of stage quality", good luck. That's the point where I would just give up.
 
Seafroggys said:
The Grateful Dead sure suffered from this.
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The Grateful Dead supported it.

What it comes down to is respect for the band's desires and their rights, because as the creators of the performance in question they superceed the individual's desires and rights. If the ban is cool with it, fine. If they are not, that's fine too, it's up to them. But we gotta either follow their desires or go somehere else for our entertainment.
Seafroggys said:
What if you wanted to get a recording of a show in your home town, but the official tour DVD was from the LA show?
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So what? I'd like to nail Jessica Alba too, but it ain't gonna happen (I guess someone's beat me to it now anyway ;) ) and I accept that and move on. You can't always get what you want. That's life. Deal with it.

And just because they are not putting out a DVD now doesn't mean that they may not have plans for another project down the road that they're saving up material (and public demand) for. You have no idea what their game plan may be, and to assume that their concert in your town is open game is incorrect. That remains *their* property to do with - or NOT do with - as they please. And to just take it from them is no different that assuming that if Ms. Alba is not currently seeing someone that it's Ok to just go ahead and rape her against her will. Because that's what YOU want.

Just because the Dead and Phish and the like put it out to anyone who wants it like Philippine crack whores when the fleet comes in does not set a precedent for the whole industry.

As to the OP, what's to master? You cot a crappy audience recording of a live concert. There's not a whole lot you can do other than EQ the begeezus out of it as required. Don't be afraid to extensively cut, but keep the cuts narrow; no big lobotomys. Some multi-band compression - or better yet, multi-band expansion - may help a bit, but frankly, you're going to be mostly stuck polishing a turd.

G.
 
I've done more than my fair share... As mentioned, it's almost always an exercise in making it "less irritating" rather than simply enhancing what's there.

But true -- More and more bands support it outright -- Many on the "honor system" that you won't be selling them for profit, yada, yada... I know some people with some rather complex systems for concert recording. Nothing you're going to sneak in under your shirt...
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
You can't always get what you want. That's life. Deal with it.
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But if you try sometime, you just might find you get what you need. :D

The major question I have that hasn't been addressed here is who's concerts is he bootlegging? Is Rozzysean's friend bootlegging Rozzysean's band? In which case, there's nothing wrong, and we're being exceedingly unhelpful by debating the ethics of bootlegging Jessica Alba.

But as has been said already, most of the work (as with all recording) is capturing a good recording in the first place. Get there during the sound test, find the place where the best, most balanced sound is, record some samples, and get your levels set as best as possible before you have to worry about fans shouting over your mix. :D
 
I just got done posting a long reply and explanation, but I got logged out and lost the post. I'll summarize.

1. This is not for profit. I didn't make the recording. I'm mastering it as a learning exercise because I've never mastered at home before, and I was asked to do it by the guy who made the recording. I've only attended two sessions in a pro studio.

2. I intend to use what I learn on projects for myself or projects for my friends.

3. I haven't done anything with sound engineering in over a year. I have rusty ears and I've forgotten a bunch of stuff. I know I'm polishing a turd, but if you could point me in the right direction for attack/release setting, common problem frequency areas (if there are some that are very common), things like that. I've already done phase reverse one stereo channel (a big help) and made few tweaks. I'm just looking for some specific tips. If you feel comfortable helping me, great. If not, fine too. Just know that I'm not making a practice of bootlegging shows without bands knowledge and setting the CD's. I'm just trying to learn. Thanks.
 
Rozzysean said:
but if you could point me in the right direction for attack/release setting, common problem frequency areas (if there are some that are very common), things like that. I've already done phase reverse one stereo channel (a big help) and made few tweaks. I'm just looking for some specific tips.
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This sure won't happen without any examples of your recording. And even with, nobody can't promise anything.
From those typical bootlegs I heard though, I don't think that the dynamics are a serious problem, so it certainly won't be the first thing I'd touch. It's probably the frequency response, which has to be fixed. The real problem is probably the reverb in those kind of recordings, which in the worst case can result in audible combing from interferences.
If I'd touch the dynamics at all, it would be probably narrow band expansion in order to fight the reverb and bring back some microdynamics.
 
LogicDeLuxe said:
This sure won't happen without any examples of your recording. And even with, nobody can't promise anything.
From those typical bootlegs I heard though, I don't think that the dynamics are a serious problem, so it certainly won't be the first thing I'd touch. It's probably the frequency response, which has to be fixed. The real problem is probably the reverb in those kind of recordings, which in the worst case can result in audible combing from interferences.
If I'd touch the dynamics at all, it would be probably narrow band expansion in order to fight the reverb and bring back some microdynamics.
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This recording better than a lot I've hear.

I just did a track off it with eq and some very light compression. I had to slice out a nasty bit of feedback and that took a little time to isolate and then decide how much to cut at that frequency so as to effect the other stuff as little as possible. I'll load the song again and try it with some expansion and see if I get a better result. I improved on the original, for sure, but it could be better.
 
I've worked on quite a few live recordings in my time (both mixing and mastering) particularly for King Biscuit. The first one that I worked on was Emerson Lake and Palmer done on a 4 track machine, along with various formats for other artists on the weekly radio show. Each one required a different treatment, some were extremely distorted (not much one can do there) in other cases there was tape shedding that was transferred to digital, as well as some excellently recorded material on 2" tape (Genesis being one of the best from what I received).

Live mixing and mastering is a very rewarding gig, have fun but keep in mind it's not done in the sterility and perfection of a studio. Don't expect it to be perfect, just hopefully better than what you were given originally. Feedback, someone pounding their mic on the stage (Iggy Pop did this a lot), piano players fucking up and letting go of the pedals too hard (Jerry Lee Lewis), etc. The pros aren't perfect when playing live and neither is the recording, it's about "capturing a moment".

What recording should really be about IMHO.
 
Like the regular motto "crap in, crap out"...

If you can record from, just in front of or just behind the sound booth you'll get a better sound then trying to record from anywhere else in the house... After that it comes down to what your ears like... You'll probably have to widen the sound a bit and probably want to give it a little (a little) air... But it's really impossible to tell without hearing how the recording apparatus actually sounds...

But other then some eq'ing you'll probably not need anything else to make it easier to listen to...
 
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