MASTERING $150 worth it??

[ecktronic]

I have a british site that masters albums for £100 or around $150. Is it even worth getting it done for this price. Im thinking that all they will do is shove it into wavelab and limit it and compress and EQ it.
Another question, when i am "mastering" and getting almost the pro CD volume level i get distorting with the low end. (I limit and compress to make sure that no level is peaking with the stereo master track). Is this a common problem, should i apply (take away) EQ also. Its just i thought if you limit and compress properly and the track doesnt clip then there would be no distorting.
Any comments would be great.

 

[Massive Master]

Probably the site that stole a bunch of info (including part of my gear list) from my website a few months ago - (au__omas_er.co.uk) fill in the blanks...

If it is, they have ZERO credibility with me, anyway... His "mastering grade" converters are obviously not "mastering grade" or he'd mention what they are. His "custom monitoring system" was a set of cheesy Event monitors.

The old photo of his studio was space was MY photo of MY SPACE.

He "may" have Nuendo, WaveLab and CD Architect - He may not. The info he had for them was lifted, verbatim, from my old gear page.

OF COURSE - If this is someone else, I'd STILL be worried. I'm cheap - But 150 for a full album?!? That's a red flag to me...

Your first instinct is probably the right one. After I posted my anger towards this fellow at this very forum, he got "nudged" a bit from some of the members here (thanks, guys!). Even if his current gear list IS correct, well, if he's *really* good, he might do okay... With his monitoring and "mastering grade" converters though... I dunno...

 

[masteringhouse]

Another question, when i am "mastering" and getting almost the pro CD volume level i get distorting with the low end. (I limit and compress to make sure that no level is peaking with the stereo master track). Is this a common problem, should i apply (take away) EQ also. Its just i thought if you limit and compress properly and the track doesnt clip then there would be no distorting.
Any comments would be great.

Try using a high pass filter set at between 20-35 Hz to remove freqs below this range. Often times people won't hear them because of lower end monitoring systems. Could be eating up alot of unnecessary headroom that, as you mentioned, distorts speakers that can't handle this range.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I feel your pain mr massive!

scroll down to slipperman's post on this page

http://marsh.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/3286/0/0/

and we can see the problem

 

[mixandmaster]

Have you heard any of his/her previous work? Has anyone you know used him/her? Will he/she offer you the opportunity to NOT pay him if the mastering sucks? That's the only way I would go for it. Many of the low (and not so low) priced places offer to give a free sample (including myself), so ask if he/she will do this.

Are you sure the track doesn't clip BEFORE you compress/limit it? If it's still distorting, nothing will help - even Tom's suggestion (which I recommend, too). If it's clean before processing, you need to check each step of the processing on its own. Take the limiter out and listen to just the compressor. If it's clean then add the limiter. If it distorts after the limiter, then you've got to tweak the limiter. Chances are in making the music "louder", you're revealing distortion that was there to begin with.

 

[earworm]

mhh,,,i have no expierience with REAL mastering,

how does it generally work?

can you send ONE song to a guy and say "if you make it sound like FUCKING-A", then i'll let you do my entire cd?

or do you really have to do a big guess....like....let him do everything,
and if its just junk, too bad for you....then you pay alot for junk...
and a free previeuw? in mp3 i guess?

 

[mixandmaster]

can you send ONE song to a guy and say "if you make it sound like FUCKING-A", then i'll let you do my entire cd?

That's pretty much how I do it, but I've only been in business for 6 months. (As a mastering engineer - I did "regular" engineering for 15 years previously). Some of these more established guys probably don't have to do that to get business, but I'm not so fortunate.

Yet.

 

[LRosario]

Is this a common problem, should i apply (take away) EQ also. Its just i thought if you limit and compress properly and the track doesnt clip then there would be no distorting.
Any comments would be great.

Alright, allow me to debunk that myth if you will. I get this with a lot of the interns and I tell them the same thing.

Setting levels properly during tracking should help you avoid that. General rule of thumb is nominal level. By nominal I mean probably about 4db below clipping. Every piece of gear acts different, so it may be different for you. These days, it's common to get as close to 0db as possible.

If your low end is distorting, then either a) someone set the bass too high b) a mic was placed too close to an amp (proximity effect) or c) poor mixing.

Limiting and compression won't act as a magic tool. Most of the time, if it sounds bad during pre-master, no amount of mastering is gonna help cure that.

Of course, try out some of the advice you get from here and see what works with your mix.

 

[bblackwood]

You mean $150/track, right?

Right?

 

[bblackwood]

Sorry, kidding.

You're likely better off doing it yourself than paying so little. You'll get fresh perspective, sure, but at what cost to your project?

 

[masteringhouse]

While price has little to do with the overall sound quality of a project it is usually an indication of the experience of the engineer, as well as the amount of high profile work he has under the belt.

Over the past 2 years that I have been advertising over the Internet I have been a strong proponent of using the medium to demonstrate work via samples and to use it as a "level playing ground", as well as to distribute proofs for folks who want to check masters remotely. Judging from the number of other studios who have adopted this, I'm guessing that it's been fairly successful.

While there's been a general trend to "commoditize" both mixing and mastering services over the past few years, the quality of the final product is related more to the skill of the engineer than price, location, and even gear list. This makes it difficult to do an apples to apples comparison without listening first. Take a test run if this company supplies one, and compare it to the work of other studios. Make sure that you're comparing results over the hype, cost, or any other factors that aren't related to what you will own after paying for it.

 

[SonicAlbert]

I wouldn't have a $150 mastering job done on my tracks. Especially if you ahve to send the tracks away to a distant location. Maybe if you have a friend you know who has some gear and a good ear, but sight unseen to a stranger across the ocean, no way.

 

[ryanlikestorock]

While there's been a general trend to "commoditize" both mixing and mastering services over the past few years, the quality of the final product is related more to the skill of the engineer than price, location, and even gear list.

My thoughts exactly. Let the man's work speak for itself. Maybe he's great at what he does and has a low enough overhead that getting paid $150 for a days work isn't bad at all.

 

[Massive Master]

I actually agree with that for the most part.

The reason that I seem so "against" this character is... his character (this is, of course, if we're talking about the guy I'm thinking of).

This was blantant deception - Theft of copywritten material and photos - to deceive potential clients. It'd be one thing if he was ripping stuff and rewording it in his own way, but this was verbatim copy. The photos on one page still had my logo on the computer screens (marked ******_Mastering_Room). Another page had a photo of a control room from a very expensive facility (marked ******_Control_Room).

I've got a feeling that people would (rightfully) have issues with me if I had photos of Gateway's system on my site and suggested that they were photos of my own rig...

It was in no small part, pressure from this particular forum that pushed him to take the photos and text (at least most of it) down and replace it (now replaced with images ripped from TC and UA - Still none of his own) and modify his gear list considerably.

Quote from Morpheus: "There's a diference between knowing the path... and walking the path." Unless you're just going to steal photos of the path, post them on your website and then say you were walking on it.

 

[masteringhouse]

I actually agree with that for the most part.

The reason that I seem so "against" this character is... his character (this is, of course, if we're talking about the guy I'm thinking of).

John -

I was speaking in the general sense. As we know there are a whole group of posers doing "mastering" for as low as $15 per song, as well as recording facilities and duplication facilities throwing in mastering as a loss leader or on the cheap.

No one is arguing with you about his character (if it's the same one) and speaks volumes about his work. Same for the sites that have been ripping off content from me. In the end I'm sure the work of the posers in comparison to reputable MEs like ourselves, Brad, etc. will tell the true tale.

 

[Massive Master]

Tom - Once again, I agree.

And you've got to agree that Morpheus quote with the additional line was pretty funny, eh?

 

[masteringhouse]

Tom - Once again, I agree.

And you've got to agree that Morpheus quote with the additional line was pretty funny, eh?

Yep, A friend of mine used to keep the original picture of a woman that was sold with the picture frame on his desk and tell people that it was his wife (as a joke). Kind of reminds me of that ...

 

[Massive Master]

I knew a guy (a watercolor artist, no less) that used to buy frames because he liked the pictures in them. He'd just hang them as-is.

Well, I guess some of them were pretty cool...

 

[pipelineaudio]

I do in fact have a at a distance mastering engineer, who is DAMN cheap, and good. But the main reason for working with him isnt price

We work together on a LOT of stuff, and we share an ftp

If ANYTHING is even the slightest bit questionable on my end when he is bringing it to polished slickness, I can change it and reload it to the ftp

its almost like having a mastering plugin on my pc so I can really check out my changes.

pretty cool

He's not the only choice my clients have but they usually pick him nowdays.