Masking tape on the mixing board....

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mattkw80

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Possibly a dumb question.......


but when you guys get the masking tape out, and label your tracks on the mixing board "Vox1, Vox2, BASS, Snare, Gtr1, Kick, OH, etc." is there any "universal" way of assigning tracks to instruments.

For example.... do you always try to assign the bass to track "5", or the Lead vocal to a specific spot ??

Just wondering, because if there is a "universal" way of assigning tracks, I'd like to know it.

I helped do live sound for a Pearl Jam tribute band once - and the sound guy's rule of thumb was we went from Left to Right, as mic's were placed on stage.


Do you guys have any 'set' ways of assigning tracks, or know of anything to consider when doing so?
 
For me, it depends on what I'm doing. Live sound is different than recording for me...

Live sound, I try to list mics first, from left to right. Then I add in instruments based on stage placement... Guitar, bass, drums, keys, piano, etc...

But as far as an industry standard, I don't believe there is one. Do what works best for you.
 
mattkw80 said:
Possibly a dumb question.......


is there any "universal" way of assigning tracks to instruments.
Click to expand...


Well not so much a universal thing, but a general approach that you see commonly. I always saw it like reading a book left to right, my foundation tracks starting on the left. It's just easier building up a mix from there. You don't waste time flying up and down a console to mix a kick and a bass guitar.


Originally it stemed from the track bleed over issue that comes up working with analog tape. Also, it's just really stems from the order in production. I mean, it was more of a hassel to rearrange tracks on tape. So the order in which things where tracked stays for the most part.

You also ran the risk of tracks bleeding over to the next track, which depends on the frequency content on that specific track.

It's in that occurence that you started seeing people sorting things out by frequency content.

So you may see the Kick, Snare, Toms together at first with the hi freq stuff (cymbals) at the end of that group. Of course, that's not the case anymore in the digital realm.
 
Wow.... I thought I was asking a dumb question, but I'm glad I asked.... sounds like there ARE different reasons people assign the various tracks to various instruments.

(I never thought of the analog tape overflow problems...)


LeeRosario said:
Well not so much a universal thing, but a general approach that you see commonly. I always saw it like reading a book left to right, my foundation tracks starting on the left. It's just easier building up a mix from there. You don't waste time flying up and down a console to mix a kick and a bass guitar.


Originally it stemed from the track bleed over issue that comes up working with analog tape. Also, it's just really stems from the order in production. I mean, it was more of a hassel to rearrange tracks on tape. So the order in which things where tracked stays for the most part.

You also ran the risk of tracks bleeding over to the next track, which depends on the frequency content on that specific track.

It's in that occurence that you started seeing people sorting things out by frequency content.

So you may see the Kick, Snare, Toms together at first with the hi freq stuff (cymbals) at the end of that group. Of course, that's not the case anymore in the digital realm.
Click to expand...
 
heh..

if i have enough channels (live this is)

1- lead vox
2-4(if needed,) other vox, left to right.

5-guitar lead
6-second guitar
7-8 third guitar/bass if needed

9 kick
10 snare
11-13 toms l to r
14-15 OH l-r
thats like perfectly in a 16 channel board, at the most really. sometimes i will mic the guitar amp and also have a direct line, same with bass.

occasionally, ill only have like 1 guitar and 1 vox, with 1 bass, and like 6 or 7 on drums. then we leave alot space between them.
 
There is a sort of universal standard when dealing with live sound that is. It typically goes....

Kick, snare, hat, small toms to large toms (assuming a standard setup), Overheads, Bass, Guitars from house left to house right, acoustics, vocals (house left to right again). Percussion usually follows drums in this scenario, but depends on the layout, and keys usually follow guitars. Most engineers follow a setup very similar to this. that type of repetition makes it very quick and easy to find stuff on a console. Especially when you are using a different console every night. In the studio I typically try and follow a similar pattern due to years of operating like that and having a large console with a fully equiped patchbay.

Also, I only use masking tape if I absolutely have to. Usually I use board tape, and if I am out of that, white gaff tape. I would NEVER use masking tape on my studio console though.
 
On the board, I usually organize left to right.

Kick
Snare
HH
Toms
OHL
OHR
Room
Bass Gtr
Keyboards
Gtrs
Other junk
Vox

I second the board tape bit, xstatic. Usually a light sticky tape, or a grease pencil if they have a plastic strip.
 
Change of POETS said:
For me, it depends on what I'm doing. Live sound is different than recording for me...

Live sound, I try to list mics first, from left to right. Then I add in instruments based on stage placement... Guitar, bass, drums, keys, piano, etc...
Click to expand...
I was going to say prety much the same thing for live, keeping the tracks pretty much aligned as they physically are on stage is handy and intuitive...unless the board is not facing the stage (not uncommon for my portable rig.)

There is also the method of ordering the tracks in the order in which you're laying them out on tape (for analog, often LF stuff like kick and bass on the outside/edge tracks with the HF stuff more towards the center; for digital, a bit more arbitrary.) The DAW version of this is to lay out the mixer tracks in the order you're laying them out in the DAW.

For those really in tune with their gear more than their gear is in tune with itself, tracks can be laid out because certain strips may sound better for one thing than for another. This is a bit rare in the home project studio, but on some bigger/older desks in various states of aging or refurbishing, you might find that different channel strips have slightly different tonal qualities.

There is no standard; do whatever works best for you.

G.
 
I use white 3M vinyl tape and mark it with Sharpies. I have a few different colored Sharpies for color coding if need be. For instance I use black for partitions, red for tracking, and green for monitoring chanels.

The vinyl tape leaves no residue and can be "erased" with isopropyl alcohol.

Masking tape is not good to use because of the residue it leaves and it tears easily. And if left on for a long time the adhesive turns to powder. Nasty stuff.
 
Yes, do not use masking tape on your console. It will leave a sticky residue and if you leave it on long enough will be hard to get off.

You can find something called "console tape" at stores like Markertek. It can be peeled off without leaving any residue and is indeed designed for just this purpose.
 
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I don't bother with tape in the studio, if I need to know what's on a channel I just solo it. Live is a bit different, but I always set the channels the same way:

Bass Drum (I don't like calling it a 'Kick')
Snare
Hi-Hats (If I mic them, which is rare)
Toms (Small to Large)
OH Left (from drummer's POV)
OH Right

Bass
Guitar(s)
Keys (again, rare)
Horns (A little more regularly)
Vocals (Studio I do lead, then main backing, 2nd backing etc., live is front house left-front house right)

Percussion, Gang vocals, synths, ambience, singing ducks etc. come after all that lot.
 
As a small historical note, the practice of putting the kick or the bass first (and last) came about in the analog tape days. The outside tracks of the tape are more prone to flutter and high frequency loss than the inside tracks, so we'd put things with less high frequency content on the outside tracks.

As far as tape on the console, there is "artists tape" available at most art supply stores that doesn't leave a sticky residue.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
As a small historical note, the practice of putting the kick or the bass first (and last) came about in the analog tape days. The outside tracks of the tape are more prone to flutter and high frequency loss than the inside tracks, so we'd put things with less high frequency content on the outside tracks.

As far as tape on the console, there is "artists tape" available at most art supply stores that doesn't leave a sticky residue.
Click to expand...

Harvey,

Wasn't the SMPTE track also reserved for the outside (usually last) to help prevent crosstalk to two adjacent tracks? There is also the issue that the outside edge of an analog tape is more prone to damage.
 
masteringhouse said:
Harvey,

Wasn't the SMPTE track also reserved for the outside (usually last) to help prevent crosstalk to two adjacent tracks? There is also the issue that the outside edge of an analog tape is more prone to damage.
Click to expand...
Yup, to both points.
 
masteringhouse said:
Harvey,

Wasn't the SMPTE track also reserved for the outside (usually last) to help prevent crosstalk to two adjacent tracks? There is also the issue that the outside edge of an analog tape is more prone to damage.
Click to expand...

Yes. You also want to avoid placing anything with fast transients (such as a kick or snare) next to a piano or vocal track.
 
I've seen staff engineers start with the kick mic, then the kick outside mic, snare, snare bottom etc. Another rule of thumb I've come across is to place overheads starting on an uneven number due to "odd even panning". For instance, overhead left on 7 and overhead right on 8.
 
Out of curiosity, how does starting the overheads on an odd number change things? If you are routing it to groups, you could still pan the odd over head to an even numbered buss.
 
mattkw80 said:
Possibly a dumb question.......


but when you guys get the masking tape out, and label your tracks on the mixing board
Click to expand...




NEVER use masking tape. Use artist's paper tape. It's more opaque, so you can read it easier, but more importantly, it's adhesive doesn't leave the nasty residue you get from masking tape. Yeah, it's a little more expensive, but it's worth it.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
mattkw80 said:
Do you guys have any 'set' ways of assigning tracks, or know of anything to consider when doing so?
Click to expand...


Oh, and to answer the question, it depends on what I'm doing. If I'm on a center master section console (and I usually am), then I want the most important stuff directly to the right of the master section, so it is right under my right hand when I am in the "sweet" spot (or, in live work, when I'm right in the middle of the console, where all the VCA's and the Matrix are). So, that would usually be vocals on those channels, but it depends on the show. Other than that, I prefer to start stereo pairs on odd numbers, but just because I've worked with some DAW's which will only pair stereo tracks that way. Other than that, drums usually go to the left of the board because they do. No real good reason, just habit. Everything else just sort of falls into place as it sees fit. If I've got them, most of the "active" mixing work takes place on the VCA's anyway, so once sound check is over, it's not that big of a deal where you put things. The exception is on digital consoles where you have to use pages. Then you want to group things on each page that make sense, but you want all your most adjusted stuff on the same page.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
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