Marshall V67, Rode NT1, or SP C1?

[Jim Soloway]

I'm trying to decide which of these three, the Marshall V67, Rode NT1, or SP C1. Which ever I get will be my first condenser mic and will be used exclusively for vocals, probably with an Audio Buddy pre-amp. Comments? Thanks.

 

[neirbo]

You should try the search function. There is lots of info and comments on all of these mics.

Most folks on this forum have only great things to say about the v67 and the C1. The V67 may have an edge since you can pick one up at Mars Music for $100 (they call it the V67m).

I wouldn't recommend the NT-1. I've tried it and the V67 and the V67 clearly is better on vocals in my opinion.

 

[B3Nut]

I say give the C1 a shot. I got the V67M from Mars, and it was really no better than the MXL2001 I had around. Same capsule, same PCB's, same components. Won't buy another MXL mic from Mars at any rate, there may be more to the Mars versions than just the different model numbers. I recall something about naked emperors....

Of the 3 mics you listed as candidates, the SP C1 is worth a shot. I'd give the AT3035 a look too, and if you can go up to the $299 level the AT4033SE and Shure KSM27 are very nice.

But I'm sorta leery of MXL now...at least as sold by Mars....caveat emptor.

TP

 

[Gidge]

B3,

.....nevermind......


id say get the v67M from Mars......

 

[JM350]

I would say if B3 is correct and the V67M is electronically an MXL 2001 rather than being the same mic as the V67G that would be a good reason to pay the extra money for the V67G.

The 2001 is a rather a poor sounding mic and if the V67M is basically that mic in a black V67 body then that is something people should know about.

 

[B3Nut]

B3,

.....nevermind......


id say get the v67M from Mars......

Hehehe, well...it's a good mic for the $99 they charge for it. It's a good platform for hot-rodding. Mine's going under the knife pretty soon. Just was a bit bummed that it wasn't the improvement over the 2001 it was purported to be. Granted, the 2001 I had around is fairly recent and wasn't too bad, but it has a 'signature' that quickly builds up if you use it for more than one track.

Oh well, it's just audio. Nobody's getting killed....


TP

 

[chessrock]

The v67 and the 2001 are very similar, for the most part. And yes, the mars version is exactly the same as the non-mars version. The Mars version is wired with Mogami cables and has a different name and color, but they're the same.

Now I don't profess to be much of a techie, but the difference between the 67 and 2001 is in the transformer. Many of the 2001's early on suffered from very cheap and poorly-utilized transformers that apparently produced an unusually harsh sound.

Both the V67M and G models apparently got it right with the transformer. That's my very "untechie" explanation, and as untechie as I may be, I do know that the transformer is a very important element that can affect the sound of a mic drastically. As can it's shape and size. Even if it is something rather small and not as easily noticed.

 

[JM350]

Many of the 2001's early on suffered from very cheap and poorly-utilized transformers that apparently produced an unusually harsh sound.

So you are saying a recent 2001 has a better transformer than the first ones and is therefore as good a mic as either of the V67's?

I haven't heard anyone claim this before. I played around with a 2001 when they first came out and thought it sounded like junk.

 

[chessrock]

I'm only going on second-hand info, here.

If anyone is really interested in all the specifics (yaaaawwwn!!!) on the whole mxl 2001, you should do a google groups search on rec.audio.pro's archives. Search phrase: "marshall 2001 and transformer" or something to that effect. (And the group: rec.audio.pro)

That's pretty much where I read all of the uh, exciting (yaaawwn) details about the whole transformer issue, the differences with the v67, and the mods that people are performing on the 2001 to make it sound more like a 67.

Here's a brief summary of it for those of you too lazy to do the search. :

(From rec.audio.pro - Comment by Harvey Gerst)

Paul,

I just got off the phone with Brent Casey and I asked him about that specifically. He said that the prototype V67 *was* identical to the 2001 internally, but the production V67s use a new transformer, a different transistor, and there are some capacitor values that are changed as well. The capsule is the same.

The new transformer in the V67 makes all the difference in the world in taming the spitty high end of the 2001, and the transformer in the 2001 may in fact, be causing the high end problems I heard. He's using this new transformer in the
high end Marshall mics as well. The self noise on the V67 is now down around 14dB.

He also gave me the go-ahead to send the mics to Ty Ford for further evaluation. Hopefully, that will happen in the next few days, if I can get all this stuff together to ship out.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

Jim,

I wouldn't stress about your decision too much. Maybe avoid the MXL 2001 since it has come under some question, but that wasn't one of your original choices, anyway.

Ultimately, it comes down to what sounds good for the voice you are recording at the time. All of the mics you've mentioned are versatile enough to give you some good variety. Depending on how far from the mic you are and at what angle to the mic, you can get a host of sounds from any of them.

My advice would be to go with the v67 or the C1- buy the cheapest one if that is the deciding factor. As you get used to using it and finding out what it can and can't do, you learn what you need for your next mic or how to make do with the one you have.

If you can, try them out. Ears are funny things, but they'll probably like one mic over the other if given a chance to hear them.

And for perspective, I own a couple C1's and I like them. I've never used a v67 or NT1, but have heard them on the recordings of others. They all sound fine to my untrained ears. Those with trained ears will debate which sounds best endlessly until they all agree on only one thing:

It depends on what voice you are recording at the time.

Take care,
Chris

 

[Fangar]

I would say if B3 is correct and the V67M is electronically an MXL 2001 rather than being the same mic as the V67G that would be a good reason to pay the extra money for the V67G.

The 2001 is a rather a poor sounding mic and if the V67M is basically that mic in a black V67 body then that is something people should know about.

The v67 & v67m sure look the same to me:

Posted by another BBS member (valdemar)

V67G - red graph
V67M - blue graph .....

https://homerecording.com/bbs/attachment.php?s=&postid=330279

&

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44916&perpage=25&pagenumber=1




Fangar

 

[JM350]

The v67 & v67m sure look the same to me:

A frequency graph of the two isn't going to tell you anything about the transformer or other distortions. It is a very limited look at what a mic sounds like.

I have to admit that I'm puzzled by the "don't bore me with the details" attitude. The quality of a product is going to some extent be determined by the expectations of people who buy the stuff. If everyone was satisfied with the transformer in the 2001 why should Marshall have bothered to produce a better one for the V67?

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Initially, the V67G had the same insides as the 2001. Brent Casey speced a new transformer for the V67G which eliminated the ringing problem of the 2001's transformer, and changed to some new transistors and caps which lowered the self noise a bit.

When I tested them, I didn't like the harsh top end of the 2001, but I found the V67G to be a great sounding mic, at least in my opinion.

One of the biggest reasons for the difference in sound is the shape of the housing and the grill, which influences the sound considerably above 5kHz. The sound of the V67G is VERY different than the 2001, even though they share a lot of the same components.

AFAIK, the 2001 still uses the original transformer, and all the various V67 models use the better transformers.

"Voicing" a mic is not an easy task. When Stephan Sank modified my Beyer M260 ribbon mic, we spent about 30 minutes just adjusting the ribbon tension to get it to sound "right".

When we put the ball end back on the mic, the sound changed dramatically, and we spent another 1/2 hour tracking it down to where we finally determined the change was caused by the Beyer gauze inside the ball. We switched to the RCA silk, and the problem disappeared.

The things that are very near the capsule can make a very big difference in the sound. High frequencies are very directional and diffraction, reflection, absorbtion, and resonances all come into play when you're dealing with objects within an inch of a capsule's diaphragm.

 

[Fangar]

A frequency graph of the two isn't going to tell you anything about the transformer or other distortions. It is a very limited look at what a mic sounds like.

I have to admit that I'm puzzled by the "don't bore me with the details" attitude. The quality of a product is going to some extent be determined by the expectations of people who buy the stuff. If everyone was satisfied with the transformer in the 2001 why should Marshall have bothered to produce a better one for the V67?

JM350,

You are correct, that the graph gives an extremely limited look at what a mic sounds like. The question was however whether or not the v67 and the v67G would sound the same. I think that graph shows answers that question. And I think that Mr. Gerst, answered the other question for you. Cheers

Fangar

 

[JM350]

Thanks Harvey for helping to keep this kind of stuff clear and in order.

As to the frequency graph being proof that the the two mics are the same I would still have to disagree. Only the frequency of the mics is being plotted, this has nothing to do with distortion.

 

[alanhyatt]

And if you wait a couple of weeks, the Studio Projects B1 at $79.00, as well as the B3 (multi-pattern, Hi-Pass & Pad) for $149.00 will then be in the mix.

The comparisons between the V67G, V67M against the B1 and B3 will be a plenty I am sure, so if you are not in a hurry, hang back a bit and see what happens.

Life is going to get very interesting very very soon!

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group