Marshall revives the V77s Tube Mic in a newly designed body...

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Flatpicker said:
Interesting. So that would mean the older Mars V93's versions are better than the 2003 versions because of this.

Did you ask him if the 2003 still used a 797 capsule?
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Tim...the V93 and 2003 both have painted grills, not the "plated" grill that Scott referred to...the V69M and V67 have the "plated" grills...
...as far as the 3-micron capsule goes, Scott told me that they will be concentrating on using the 6-micron on all large diaphragm mics (MXL believes the 6-micron is less susceptible to the high-end sibilance/harshness problem that plagues some of the 3-micron capsules)...He also said they are developing an entirely new capsule design that would utilize a new/different diaphragm, but it's too early to divulge the details...I don't know if they plan to change the 2003 to a 6-micron in the future, but I do know that 797Audio no longer supplies MXL with product, as MXL controls all of their manufacturing now...that allows them to pursue new designs that are unique to the marketplace rather than tweaking OEM products, as in the past...I will try to have a follow-up conversation, and get more specific info...
 
kidvybes said:
Tim...the V93 and 2003 both have painted grills, not the "plated" grill that Scott referred to...
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Hmmmm didn't realize the V93 was painted... - I'll have to get a closer look.
 
Flatpicker said:
Hmmmm didn't realize the V93 was painted... - I'll have to get a closer look.
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Tim...I believe that only the V69M, V67, the new Silicon Valve series, and the V76t share the "plated grill" feature in the MXL lineup...early feedback on the V6 Silicon Valve model is very positive (sounding much like the V69M but without the tube circuit and external power source)...so maybe there's something to the "plating" issue...certainly the V69M and the V67 have been well liked on this site...time will tell if the V76t has the "juice"...
 
...well I bit the bullet today (could'nt resist the urge...it's a dirty job but somebody's got to do it!)...my new V76t is on the way...I'll be comparing it to the V69, V77 and the NTK in the near future...I hope to post some vocal tracks once I put it to good use...should have some first impressions in about a week or so...
 
...well, after a lengthy recording session last night, we squeezed in an imprompt shootout between the original MXL V77s, the newly released MXL V76t and we thru in a Rode K2 as a reference (of course the Rode sells for more than 3 times the price of the 2 MXL mics)...all 3 tube microphones had the original stock tubes in them (I generally upgrade the tubes with some slight improvement in sound quality)...
...we recorded the same male vocalist on all three mics...no pad, no filters, no compression or reverb...absolutely "dry" raw vocal files from the same singer...all three mics were given time to "warm up"...the odd thing is, both the V76t and the K2 get real warm to the touch, but the V77s never even feels warm (I've noticed this with both of my V77s)...I don't know much about the circuit designs, but I would guess the voltage that is run thru the tubes is lower on the V77s, therefore less heat is generated...both the V77s and V76t utilize transformer-coupled output, while the K2 is transformerless (like it's little brother, the NTK)...
...anyhow, we ran all three mics straight thru an AMEK/NEVE 9098 DMA pre (it's a relatively neutral sounding preamp, so the mic's should sound pretty true to their character) and then directly into the DAW...I edited the same phrase from each of the 3 vocal tracks and sent the WAV files to Bleyrad to host so I can post the files...now it was late, and we were all pretty shot after a tracking session that went on for about 8 hours, so I'm a little leary about the results...but you can definately hear subtle differences between the files...gain might have been just a bit too high on the mics (normally with a pad or high filter or some compression those levels would have been fine, but without the tweaking, the input was a bit hot!)...anyway, you hear a bit of distortion on each of the files (probably salvagable if processed in a mix, but more noticeable in a raw file)...the singer has a great "textured" voice with alot of character, so you can hear how the mics capture his "sound"...
...hopefully we'll have the files up later today...
 
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Ok, here are his files.

Short WAV samples:

Rode K2
MXL V77
MXL V76

Longer MP3 samples:

Rode K2
MXL V77
MXL V76

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that:

1) The K2 has its own very unique style and so it isn't necessarily fair to judge these mics on which one sounds "best" in this particular case.
2) The older V77 stomps all over the V76 and makes it sound like the cheap Chinese condenser it is.

Also I think there is just too much distortion on the longer samples to accurately judge how they handle louder signals and sibilance.

I'm definitely dissapointed with the sound of the V76 here. It's very different from the V77. Ah well... dissenting opinions, anyone?

I'm also going to say that the V77 sounds VERY similar to an Apex 460's sound, to my ears.
 
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...after giving these files a closer listen today, I'm compelled to try and re-do the shootout in a more controlled environment (not as an afterthought, following a draining 8 hr. tracking session)...it's clear to me that the tracks were recorded in haste, and not monitored well (otherwise the distortion that sounds so obvious today might have been more evident last night)...the singer was definately a bit too close to the mic (considering his vocal strength) and the gain was a bit high...it's clear the Rode handled the proximity and gain best...I'm not prepared to write off any of the mics just yet...we'll try to give it another go when fresher minds (AND ears!) prevail...but I do think the V77 hangs in there, while the V76 shows a bit too much sensitivity to both the proximity and gain issues...
 
Just wanted to say thank you for going through the trouble Mr.Kidy and Bleyrad.... ;)

IMO, the 77 sounds much "softer", not in volume, but overall. (Some might say 'warmer', but I hate that word... :D )

The 67t had much more "bite,grit,detail,teeth, etc..."

Now I now why I don't write mic reviews for a living... :eek:
 
turnitdown said:
Just wanted to say thank you for going through the trouble Mr.Kidy and Bleyrad....
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Ditto here!! I'm looking forward to hearing the final shootout clips.

Thanks!!

-mr moon
 
kidvybes said:
...but I do think the V77 hangs in there, while the V76 shows a bit too much sensitivity to both the proximity and gain issues...
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I just picked up a V76 and was experimenting with it today. My observation after running it though a Grace and Eureka pre, is that the midrange is a little harsh and woody sounding. The highs are crisp and the lows are somewhat subdued, but nice. I haven't swapped out the ECC81 with a Tele or Brimar, only because the power supply and components looks pretty cheasy throughout, especially the OT; so I doubt it would make much diference replacing the tube at this point.

Not sure I care for this mic, but I'll know more by next week.
 
CCS said:
I just picked up a V76 and was experimenting with it today. My observation after running it though a Grace and Eureka pre, is that the midrange is a little harsh and woody sounding. The highs are crisp and the lows are somewhat subdued, but nice. I haven't swapped out the ECC81 with a Tele or Brimar, only because the power supply and components looks pretty cheasy throughout, especially the OT; so I doubt it would make much diference replacing the tube at this point.

Not sure I care for this mic, but I'll know more by next week.
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...Actually, many of the components (caps for example) are of a higher grade (Japanese manufactured rather than the Chinese versions) than the other MXL mics...it looks to me as though they are trying to improve the quality on the newer models...If you decide to keep the mic, definately upgrade the tube (I've upgraded all my tube mics and there's an improvement in the high frequencies to be heard)...the NOS Mullard CV4024 military-issue will work and they are stock in many of the high-end tube mics from Europe...here's a source for NOS real cheap!:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5787192188&category=64629&rd=1
 
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kidvybes said:
...Actually, many of the components (caps for example) are of a higher grade (Japanese manufactured rather than the Chinese versions) than the other MXL mics...it looks to me as though they are trying to improve the quality on the newer models...If you decide to keep the mic, definately upgrade the tube (I've upgraded all my tube mics and there's an improvement in the high frequencies to be heard)...the NOS Mullard CV4024 military-issue will work and they are stock in many of the high-end tube mics from Europe...here's a source for NOS real cheap!:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5787192188&category=64629&rd=1
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The components in the mic are better quality than the power supply, which is to be expected for the price. The tube is nicely laid out and sits on a fitted crossmember, which has two screws for access. The circuit board is on the other side. Very nicely laid out and easy to get to the tube socket.

I may have jumped the gun with my initial remarks. Having rested my ears a bit, I've had more time to evaluate the V76 and my conclusion is based on male vox, nylon string gtr, percussion, and alto sax. I think it's an excellent mic, which didn't require any EQ on any of these sources. The sonic quality is balanced and the low end is focused and not exagerrated. I think it's the best sounding Marshall mic I've heard so far, and I've used more than a few. It really shines on acoustic jazz, and exhibits a smooth quality with some sizzle.

Though I lean toward higher end mics, I'm impressed with this one, since it required no EQing, once the sweet spot was found. Definately a keeper. I would, however, like to eventually upgrade the components for the power supply. Kudos to Marshal.
 
why do company's like MXL fail to upgrade thier own tubes,
it's a relitively cheep (esp at cost) way to make you're mic's sound better
and probably sell better because of it.


really, how much could it add to the retail cost of a mic?
 
remember the recent apex/telefunkin (spelling? whatever) thing?

if i worked at apex you bet your balls i would have changet the tube of that mic out to one comperable to one in the tele, added 10$ to the price (however much) then been all over the boards touting the tube change.


(i know that that may not make the mic's actually similar, but i bet it would make them sell better)
 
giraffe said:
why do company's like MXL fail to upgrade thier own tubes,
it's a relitively cheep (esp at cost) way to make you're mic's sound better
and probably sell better because of it.


really, how much could it add to the retail cost of a mic?
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...the thing is, where better quality tubes are concerned, there aren't many vintage tubes of a particular brand/model available in the kinds of quantity neccessary to accommodate the production run of a new mic...the one particular tube that does seem to be available is the mid 80's Mullard CV4024 which is used by a few of the higher end tube mics as the OEM tube...you can buy these on Ebay for under $15. so the upgrade is easy and cheap (for replacing the standard 12AT7 tube)...vintage GE 5-star NOS 6072 tubes are available for about twice that price as an upgrade for tube mics using that particular OEM tube...
...I think it's more beneficial that the mic manufacturers continue offering mics that have the "socket mount" tubes (rather than the earlier fixed/soldered tubes they used to provide) so that at least the upgrade process is simple and easy...replacing a soldered tube (been there done that) is a more delicate and potentially damaging procedure for the uninitiated...
...the jury is out as to whether or not these upgraded tubes really improve the sound of a particular microphone...but experimenting with a $15-30. tube is a worthwhile endeavor IMHO...even if it's just the self-satisfaction that comes with knowing that inside your spankin' new $200. Chinese microphone is a piece of "vintage audio technological history" with the name "Telefunken" on it...of course, the Tele tubes go for a bit more than $15-30...
 
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The kidv has it right.

Low cost requires mass production "economies of scale" and that pretty much rules out NOS tubes.

Sure some us would be willing to pay another $15 for a better tube but for the price point these are selling at the tubes in any sub $500 mic probably cost the manufacturer less than $1.00 per unit when bought by the tens of thousands.

From the business side you might be able to get the Mullard's NOS in at a little under $10.00 but you just increased your cost per mic for one part by 1000%. The bean counters won't go for that.

I also agree with the tube socket instead of a hard soldered tube benefits us more who really care enough to try swapping some tube components at it is fairly easy to A/B the tubes with a socket besides the safety and longevity improvements of having the sockets.

Just ordered one Mullard 4024 to try in my Millennia TB-1 to add some more vintage color but now I am thinking I should have ordered five or six for other projects like this.
 
Scooter B said:
Just ordered one Mullard 4024 to try in my Millennia TB-1 to add some more vintage color but now I am thinking I should have ordered five or six for other projects like this.
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SB...Please let us know how the tube swap works out...those Mullard CV4024 are about the best deal around for a vintage NOS 12AT7 substitute...

...by the way, I'm taking the V77 and V76 both into the studio again tonite...I hope to get some "cleaner" samples to post...I hope Bleyrad will assist in posting them again, in place of the original <distorted> set...
 
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SB...Please let us know how the tube swap works out...those Mullard CV4024 are about the best deal around for a vintage NOS 12AT7 substitute...
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Will do and thanks for the link!

I have read lots of good stuff on the Mullards and the Millennia site even recomended them for those who found the TD-1 a little "too clean". The included HV-3 mic pre is an excellent super clean preamp that is perfect for classical and other more acoustic "pure" sounds but my room is not treated yet and I would prefer to color the sound a little at this point but by swappin tubes I can have the best of both worlds.
 
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