Marshall MXL 990 and B.L.U.E. KIWI vocal demos

[c7sus]

What is there to debate???

If you liked the Kiwi you should check out the Cactus! Smoooooooth....................

But you gotta ditch the audiobuddy and get something REALLY clean!

 

[malcolm123]

With all due respect, Malcolm . . . I really think you need to hear these mics side-by-side under more ideal conditions.

ie -- not in a busy guitar center store . . .

And you really need to hear them on a variety of different voices, and most importantly, within the context of a mix. In my opinion, the mxlv67 sounds awesome, untill you actually start adding music, then you kind of start wondering where your vocal track went. ? ? ? It was here just a second ago! Now all I hear is this muddy muffly thing in the background that sounds like it could be a vocal track.

Yeah, I Getcha,, But Isnt that where the mixing comes in at? I mean you track your vox, music, etc with as good a signal as possible, then you listen for whats fighting for the same Freq ranges and you try to move them or pan some. The muddy Muffling that your referring to is that due to Freq wars or is it that a good mic has a more apparent sonic characteristic that holds up better when more music is applied? Im asking because I have never "myself" track enough channels where I would just hear the mic disappear.

I mean without a doubt, the good mics that cost so much money are better than budget mics. But are they that much better where they cost thousands more. Im sure this has been covered before. sh@t, I think I even asked the question once a long time ago. Still not trying to beat a dead horse, but if anyone has a link to a old thread on this, post it please. If not, then you Pro guys jump in. Im gonna do a search myself.

Thanks

Malcolm

 

[Bergen]

Well, I agree B.L.U.E. makes great mics. Any company concerned with detail enough to make their own screws gets thumbs up in my book. And if I had a studio with clients , and I wrote off my equipment and had enough revenue that write-off's were important, I would definitely consider buying one. But I'm just a fair-weathered home recording artist who'll only record himself and has no illusions that this will ever be more than a hobby.

Harvey has a thread at prosoundweb.com complaining about engineers recommending super expensive mics to novices who may never even become that serious about home recording. It's not that simple to lay $3000 down for a mic and $500+ for a preamp to do it justice. It is pretty simple to pay $95 for a mic and $79 for a preamp and blow away your friends with your recordings, swearing you must have gone to a professional studio. And if other more experienced home recording artists or engineers see the shortcomings, that's ok, I won't loose any sleep. I think mixing experience and the talent behind the mic plays as much if not more of a role behind the final product as does the quality of your signal chain, especially with the revolution of good quality, low-priced condenser mics and preamps we're experiencing. Anyway, that's my two cents.

 

[eeldip]

AGREED!

 

[chessrock]

But I'm just a fair-weathered home recording artist who'll only record himself and has no illusions that this will ever be more than a hobby.

Harvey has a thread at prosoundweb.com complaining about engineers recommending super expensive mics to novices who may never even become that serious about home recording.

The reason this is happening is because these engineers are simply answering some very direct questions. If everyone were as realistic as you, we wouldn't exactly have that problem. But kids are coming on here asking "What's the best microphone?" . . . or they'll say "I want GREAT results," "I want to sound like a freakin' platinum record," etc. etc. etc.

So a lot of these engineers are simply making some very good suggestions, given these people's lofty criteria. Hey, you said you wanted GREAT, and greatness ain't cheap.

When people like yourself say things like "Recommend me a mic. Doesn't have to be outstanding. Just good bang-for-buck, maybe a couple hundred or less . . . " Then you'd get much more realistic responses that would likely include the Marshalls, Studio Projects, CADs, etc. Ask good questions if you want good answers.

 

[Bergen]

Thanks Chessrock. I know exactly what you mean. Some people don't understand that a great mic in a crappy sounding untreated room will sound like crap. I was upfront about the acoustical limitations of my mic comparison so people could take that into account while listening.

I personally think people should focus on having more balanced home studio setups rather than spending all their dough on a single piece of gear that gets them all excited. Right now, I'm using a moving blanket soundbooth and the mics/preamps I mentioned. It would be stupid of me to invest in a super expensive mic prior to getting some good monitors. And I won't even appreciate these fully till I treat my room. Then, with some more experience, I might upgrade things in tandem. And there will always be blossoming newbies ready to buy my old gear off me at ebay.

After all, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, right?

 

[dmGremlin]

Just out of curiosity, is there anyone here who has worked on a gold or platinum record who really knows what one sounds like before mastering?

Going a little off topic here, I know this indie artist who has sold tens of thousands of records, gets radio airplay with this record and even has a video for one of her songs, and she used an sm58 for her vocals... in her (untreated) closet.

I think the skill of the engineer (and of course the talent of the artist) has a lot to do with what results you will have, though choosing your mastering lab carefully is probably the most important step as far as finished product goes... as long as your mix doesn't completely suck that is.

Don't get me wrong, there are definitely 'bad' mics... and while the 990 isn't neccessarily on my list of 'good' mics, there are lots of good mics that don't cost thousands of dollars... what about 'Great' mics though? No such thing.

Of course, I've heard lots of people use this same kind of argument regarding price = quality when they will adamantly state that the only computer based recording system you can use to record a hit record is Pro Tools. After all, Pro Tools is the industry standard, just like ultra expensive Neumann, etc microphones. I wouldn't dare argue with someone who stands by that kind of logic.

My advice for someone trying to get something radio ready in a home recording setting: Get a mic that makes you sound like you, make your mix balanced (balance is the key) - and when your album is done and it comes time to press your first thousand, don't skimp on your mastering lab. This is really the step that will determine whether your final product sounds like an album or a demo. Open up one of your favorite albums that is more or less in the style of your own music and look at the credits to find out where where it was mastered, and try to send it to one of those places. You'll be glad you saved your money.

It's good to post audio clips like this though. Next time, I'd like to see some clips posted but without telling anyone what mics they are - and see which one people think sounds better before saying what they are.

 

[CanopuS]

Interesting idea about not telling what mics they are. I recently went onto your forum Grem, you should post some of the ones you did, very useful.

 

[littledog]

This is not the first time this topic has arisen, and everyone has given some excellent perspectives so far.

I look at it a slightly different way: one shouldn't ever buy expensive gear solely because it is expensive.

You buy an expensive piece of gear because:

a) You have gotten to the point where you can no longer work efficiently or happily with what you currently own.

b) The purchase of a more expensive piece will help generate more business and/or attract clients.

c) You are unsatisfied with the results using your current gear, and have already explored improving your engineering technique and room acoustics.

d) You can afford to buy it.

If the above points don't apply to your situation, then stick with what you've got and/or similarly priced gear additions. Since it it has no relevance to you personally, there's a good chance you won't be able to understand why top engineers (on the whole) prefer to use expensive gear. But chances are, someday (if you stay with it) you will get to the point where you will understand.

Meanwhile, be glad you feel no need for you to spend tens of thousands of dollars on gear. Think of all the other ways you can use that money instead.

Bottom line: if you can't see the need for spending a lot of money on something, you would be extremely foolish to do so.

 

[c7sus]

You guys make some very good points. For me, since my skills as a musician or engineer are never gonna be my bread-and-butter, this is just a stupidly expensive hobby. I began to look at it as an "investment" thing a couple years ago when stocks tanked. That $3500 of JDSU I bought @ $118 would still be right here in my living room if I had bought some top-dollar pres or mics instead. The really high-end stuff holds it's value, and in some cases can appreciate notably.

Maybe someday, when I get my shit "more or less in line", I'll be able to open my doors to a solo or string band and maybe recoup a fraction of what I have sunk into this madness.

I built a rack over the last 10 days or so, and put the hardware on yesterday and put my gear in. It's about half-full. My youngest says "Dad, you gotta get some more stuff to fill up the rest of this rack!"

"I KNOW!"

I keep telling Riley we're just $20,000 away from having a REALLY NICE studio.

I just donated my computer to Riley's side businesses because they're starting to take off. I'm building a desk next, then a "quiet rack" for a new CPU to reside in. I'm hoping to be recording in my "living room/dining room/completely self-indulgent studio" some time early 04 if things come together.

 

[Bergen]

WORD UP SCHA-NIZZLE! Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Bergen]

c7sus,

Interesting idea. Lust gear is much more fun than a rockin' portfolio. Just one question...

HOW IN THE WORLD DID YOU GET YOUR WIFE TO AGREE TO SUCH A THING?!?!?!?

You have succeeded in area where few men have even dared enter. Your real future is in teaching a class entitled:
HOW TO CONVINCE YOUR WIFE THAT YOUR HOBBY IS AN INVESTMENT AND SPEND LIMITLESS AMOUNTS OF CASH ON IT

You'll make millions. Home Recording is just the tip of the iceberg. Really!

 

[c7sus]

I'm REALLY good in bed.