Marching Band CD Project

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ReeseyCup

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First of all, since this is my first post, I suppose I'll briefly introduce myself. I'm a senior in high school, I've been into recording and music production for about 4 years, and most of my work is done in a small, low-budget home studio (as you could probably guess). I'm hoping to enter a recording arts program or something similar in college, and I need as much material as I can gather for a portfolio, which brings me to the topic at hand...

So far, this year has marked a major positive turnaround for my school's band program, and the marching band is better than it has been in several years. For our senior project, a friend and I have decided to partner up and record a CD of the marching band show. Unfortunately, we're pretty limited on equipment. None of it is really top-of-the-line, but it will have to do. Our available mics will include about 5 SM57s, 6 to 10 old BG 4.1s, two MXL 603s (mine), an MXL 990 (also mine), various Beta drum mics, and some of my own Nady drum mics. Right now, the plan is to record the show on the field at a standstill with the pit in front, the battery behind the pit in a small arc, and the winds in an arc wrapping around the back. Here is the exact layout showing the battery and winds, and here are some photos of our stadium to get an idea of the recording environment.

For the winds, I was thinking of putting the 603s on the left/right and the 990 in the center, as shown. They're all of equal distance from the arc (about 5 yards). For the drums, I plan to use two of the BG 4.1s in ORTF or a similar setup - also shown in the diagram. The pit instruments will be individually miked with everything that's left. All of this will be going into a Mackie SR 32.4, and then the submixes from that will go into an Alesis Multimix Firewire interface (though I'm going to try and run the wind mics directly into the Multimix).

So, what does everyone think? It isn't a very ideal setup, but it's all we have to work with. Is there anything anyone would change or recommend? This is my first time doing this big of a recording project, so I'm open to all kinds of ideas and advice.
 
I think thats a really cool idea.

If you have an extra omni sitting around, it might be cool to put one up in the stands to get that real stadium reverb. Might also be cool to record some crowd noise from a Friday night football game that you can mix in. You got any hot cheerleaders? Maybe you can put a couple mics in front of them doing a cheer and mix that in too.

I'd ask around and try to borrow the best equipment you can get your hands on. When I'm micing a group of something, I like small diaphragm condensers- that seems to give the most realistic sound out of an of my limited mic locker. Are you getting school credit for this? I wish I got school credit for doing cool shit like that when I was in school...

What part of the world are you in? Maybe you could find a member that isnt too far away that might be willing to help you guys out...
 
I've successfully recorded similar bands using just a pair of condensors in X-Y positioned roughly where the conductor would be.

At other times I've done this, but added a couple of mikes at extreme left and right and directed towards the centre of the back line.
 
Welcome to the board, first of all, Reesey. I think that's a thoughtful plan of attack you have, though a couple of things concern me a bit. Take this with a grain of salt in that I have no specific experience recording a marching band*. But first, I'm not real keen on the idea of recording out of doors, it has a tendency to suck the sound right out of things, IMHO. Is this a purposeful decision, or are there no alternatives such as an auditorium?

But more to the detail at hand, the choice of ORTF on the front row, IMHO, depends upon two variables; the size of the smaller arc and the distance from the arc to the mics. There's nothing wrong with the ORTF in and of itself, but you just want to make sure you don't wind up with a hole in the middle if the mics are too close to the arc. If you have to get that close to get a quality sound that also does not get proportionally too much of the rear row, just keep the option open to switch to an X/Y configuration if need be. And conversely, if the edges are too spread for the X/Y, then the ORTF would perhaps be better. The key will be finding the right distance to get both a good sound from the front row as well as get as much of the row as possible.

A similar question in the rear; depending upon the size of the arc, watch the holes in coverage between the mics. Be prepared - if need be - to adjust the mic positions to get a good balance of the instruments. You don't necessarily have to cover the whole arc degree-by-degree; just enough of each instrument type to get a good representation. When you consider that some instruments will be naturally louder than others, the could call for an asymmetry in mic positions, getting closer (in arc position, not front/back distance) to the quieter instruments and/or maybe pointing a bit away from the louder ones, etc.

If you can get a chance to have them play a sound check or two in position so you can actually walk the arcs and give a listen your self at various positions to check loudness and balance, and use that to help guide eact mic positioning, that might be useful.

Either way, best of luck with the project, and may the sun shine and the winds be calm on the day you do it :).

G.

* I tried played cello in a marching band once, but it was a pain in the ass having to pick up my chair and mover it 10 feet forward every three seconds ;) :D
 
Glen...having been in marching bands myself for several years, I can tell you that its natural environment is outdoors. If they're in an auditorium, it turns into a freaking washing machine. Marching bands are fucking LOUD. It sounds like crap inside a gym or theater or other sort of auditorium.

(I'm going under the assumption that the TS is talking about field shows and not just parade music)

Marching bands practice and rehearse outdoors, and their sound and practice is tweaked to their environment. So in essence, it should sound okay being recorded. I've heard my marching band recorded through some decent mics and it sounded fine.
 
Seafroggys said:
Glen...having been in marching bands myself for several years, I can tell you that its natural environment is outdoors. If they're in an auditorium, it turns into a freaking washing machine. Marching bands are fucking LOUD. It sounds like crap inside a gym or theater or other sort of auditorium.
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Well, you have more experience with this subject than I do, Frogtser, so I'll take your word for it (though the UCLA band seems to swing it OK in several indoor TV and video appearances.)

I guess it's a little different than a jazz big band, which perform and record indoors all the time, because a marching band is taught to play as loud as possible. I never really thought of that until now.

I guess it's picking the lesser of two evils to do it outdoors :o.

G.
 
Wow - that's quite a few replies for such a short time. Thanks for the advice so far, guys! Here comes a huge list of quotes and responses...

Jeff_D said:
If you have an extra omni sitting around, it might be cool to put one up in the stands to get that real stadium reverb. Might also be cool to record some crowd noise from a Friday night football game that you can mix in. You got any hot cheerleaders? Maybe you can put a couple mics in front of them doing a cheer and mix that in too.

I'd ask around and try to borrow the best equipment you can get your hands on. When I'm micing a group of something, I like small diaphragm condensers- that seems to give the most realistic sound out of an of my limited mic locker. Are you getting school credit for this? I wish I got school credit for doing cool shit like that when I was in school...
Click to expand...

Hahah. Yes, it's for credit. We have these mandatory senior projects at my school. It can basically be anything that will be beneficial to the community and provide a learning curve for the students doing the project. This seems to fit the bill perfectly, since we'll be selling the CDs.

As for the suggestions, I'll definitely see about finding an omni to use. I think the bowl has excellent reverb for marching band sound, and I've actually thought a little bit already about trying to capture it. I may consider doing the crowd noise thing as well. The idea isn't to make it seem like it's at a football game, but there is a certain point in our show where some crowd noise as a background effect would actually tie in with the theme.

SouthSIDE Glen said:
I'm not real keen on the idea of recording out of doors, it has a tendency to suck the sound right out of things, IMHO. Is this a purposeful decision, or are there no alternatives such as an auditorium?
Click to expand...

Well, there's a number of reasons why I've decided to record on the field. First of all, there isn't really enough room anywhere indoors other than the gym to have the entire marching band set up. We only have around 60 members (including 36 winds), but we still need quite a bit of room for the pit, wind arc, battery arc, and recording equipment. The football field is also a perfect and familiar place to be able to set everything up in exact coordinates for consistency, should we decide to take a break and walk away from the arcs. Lastly, a marching band is just meant to be heard outside. I've found that when we all play together inside as a full ensemble, there are a lot of issues with the battery and pit overpowering the winds because of the reverb, and there's no way I'd be able to go back and fix that during mixing. A good example that's close to the same thing I'm wanting to do is the Blue Devils' CD recording, which is always done outdoors. Here's a video of their process - I'm fairly sure that the audio you hear is the actual recording.

But more to the detail at hand, the choice of ORTF on the front row, IMHO, depends upon two variables; the size of the smaller arc and the distance from the arc to the mics. There's nothing wrong with the ORTF in and of itself, but you just want to make sure you don't wind up with a hole in the middle if the mics are too close to the arc. If you have to get that close to get a quality sound that also does not get proportionally too much of the rear row, just keep the option open to switch to an X/Y configuration if need be. And conversely, if the edges are too spread for the X/Y, then the ORTF would perhaps be better. The key will be finding the right distance to get both a good sound from the front row as well as get as much of the row as possible.
Click to expand...

I haven't put much thought into this part. I will definitely keep everything you said in mind and play around with the arrangement in the battery arc. I may have to go with X/Y, since the pit is going to be pretty close in front, but I might be able to get a bit more room in there. Thanks for the useful info!

A similar question in the rear; depending upon the size of the arc, watch the holes in coverage between the mics. Be prepared - if need be - to adjust the mic positions to get a good balance of the instruments. You don't necessarily have to cover the whole arc degree-by-degree; just enough of each instrument type to get a good representation. When you consider that some instruments will be naturally louder than others, the could call for an asymmetry in mic positions, getting closer (in arc position, not front/back distance) to the quieter instruments and/or maybe pointing a bit away from the louder ones, etc.
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I'll keep this in mind as well. The winds are actually my main concern right now, as I've seen and heard of it being done several different ways. The main area that worries me is the left side of the arc. We have 4 flutes on the very end followed immediately by six trumpets. As you can see in my diagram, the setup will probably have to be tweaked quite a bit at that point.

If you can get a chance to have them play a sound check or two in position so you can actually walk the arcs and give a listen your self at various positions to check loudness and balance, and use that to help guide eact mic positioning, that might be useful.
Click to expand...

I'm actually thinking about planning a test recording just for the wind arc. It won't be in the stadium, but it will be outdoors, so it should still give me a good idea of balance issues I'll have.

Seafroggys said:
Glen...having been in marching bands myself for several years, I can tell you that its natural environment is outdoors. If they're in an auditorium, it turns into a freaking washing machine. Marching bands are fucking LOUD. It sounds like crap inside a gym or theater or other sort of auditorium.
Click to expand...

Hahah. Well, we are a pretty small marching band, but what you're saying still applies. Our sound isn't face-melting, but as a full ensemble, we're suited best to outdoor environments.
 
ReeseyCup said:
First of all, there isn't really enough room anywhere indoors other than the gym to have the entire marching band set up.
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Yeah, a gym would most likely suck. I was thinking maybe you had a band room or a theater stage with at least some favorable acoustics. But if not, the the stadium would almost certainly be better than an oversized reverb chamber like a gym.

G.
 
Yeah, our band room has some decent acoustic treatment. The sound in there is good, but the problem would be having enough space to set everything up the right way for recording. We'd be really restricted, and the drums would still overpower everything significantly. I wouldn't hesitate at all to use the room for any other type of recording, though. In fact, I've recorded the jazz band and wind ensemble there in the past. Marching band just uses too much stuff to squeeze in a band room and record at the same time.
 
Sorry for digging this back up and double-posting, but I have some new questions. I'm going to have to rethink how to record the pit section with as few mics as possible. In this order from left to right (looking from the front), there are:

- A xylophone with crotales & a cymbal mounted
- Vibes with a cymbal mounted
- A marimba with a cymbal mounted
- A second marimba with cymbal

I'd like to be able to record these with four mics. What would be the best way to do that? 2 pairs of X/Y or similar?

I'm also wondering about how to do timpani, gong, and bass drum. Those are all behind the mallet instruments.
 
ReeseyCup said:
Sorry for digging this back up and double-posting, but I have some new questions. I'm going to have to rethink how to record the pit section with as few mics as possible. In this order from left to right (looking from the front), there are:

- A xylophone with crotales & a cymbal mounted
- Vibes with a cymbal mounted
- A marimba with a cymbal mounted
- A second marimba with cymbal

I'd like to be able to record these with four mics. What would be the best way to do that? 2 pairs of X/Y or similar?

I'm also wondering about how to do timpani, gong, and bass drum. Those are all behind the mallet instruments.
Click to expand...

I'd be thinking minimalist. Xylophones, vibes and so on have a lot of presence, and can be heard clearly against the full band. Yep, you can use two pairs of XYs, but were I doing it, I would just go for one mike for each group.
 
The volume balance of a marching band is determined live as they are playing. In that sense, the pit can pretty much always be heard exactly as intended. You really just need several field mics, not even any specific mics for the pit, because the mix has already been made live.
 
Ahhhh....this brings back memories. I played trombone in high school & college. Those were the days....:)

Anyway...Having played in the band I know that the woodwinds are pretty hard to hear over the brass and percussion. Maybe bring them close to the front. Maybe even in front of the percussion. Or just have a set of mics just for them.


When you get it done, I'd like to hear the results of your work. Post us some clips. :D
 
I know this is a pretty old thread now, but we've done the recording, and I thought I'd let you all know how it went.

We ended up recording on a tennis court. At the last minute, I found out I didn't have clips for the drumline mics, but I ended up not needing individual drumline mics anyway - the wind mics picked them up just fine. Here's a sample of the recording. I found out that this particular mix clips a bit, but it isn't very noticeable. I've still fixed it since uploading the video, though.
 
I prefer brass to anything wooden like it was said, wooden is hard to hear over other instruments.
 
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