Many recording questions

S

solo169

New member
First off I would like to thank everyone for the loads of information I have found on here. OK, after weeks of reading and searching these forums I am completely overloaded with information.
I have been using a Yamaha MD8 for recording the last few years and will eventually move on to something bigger and better but for now it will have to do, so please bear with me. Our sound the offspring of Sabbath and Metallica.
We have recorded using the Roland V-drums in the past but due to just having stereo outs instead of each drum having an output, the cymbal sound and not having a double kick we are gonna try to conquer an acoustic set. Here is a list of mics we are working with:
1- Shure Beta 52 (Kick)
3- Shure sm57’s (snare, toms)
2- Joe Meek JM27’s (overheads)
1- Studio Project B1 (?, Vocals)
We seem to have gotten a pretty good sounding snare so far but the kick and toms sound like shit. Right now we have a pillow in the kick drum with the front head on and the mic in the center hole. Should we take the front head off? The toms seem to ring a little too much so we have the duct tape out and are trying to deaden them somewhat. Should we remove the bottom heads? We do have a couple of Alesis compressors (not sure which model right now though). Should I compress the drum while tracking?
One problem is we have three condenser mics but the MD8 only has phantom power for 2 mics so we’ll probably not be able use the B1 for drums unless I get a pre amp or sound card with phantom power.
I was planning on recording the drums with the MD8 and dumping all of the individual tracks into Cakewalk 9 then overdubbing everything else which brings me to another question. Which soundcard do I buy? I need one with 8 inputs and preferable 8 outs. I have read a lot of the posts on here and for my price range ($300 or less) believe that I should go with the M Audio Delta 1010. I am also debating on the 1010LT but the idea of a bunch of cables hanging there seems odd to me.
Can you guys recommend anything that may be of some help? I, like many other on here am on a tight budget but I don’t want to buy junk either.
Here is a link to our last recording done with the V-drums, Guitar POD, and an SM58 directly into recorder for vocals. I would like to think we can take a step up from here.

So to summarize, I guess I’m looking at buying a sound card with at least 8 outs, a decent compressor or four and possibly some sort of pre amp for vocals.
I know I have asked an extraordinary amount of Novice questions but any advice is appreciated….
 
Hey.

Questions:

How many toms on the kit?

Double kick pedal or 2 drums?

What kind of heads on the kick and toms?

I bought a Beta 52 a couple of years ago, and I was disappointed. Cheap Maxwin kit with a brand new Remo Powerstroke head. I loved the sound of the head from hearing the kit in the room, but it sounded like cheap wet cardboard after being recorded. A coated Ambassador kick drum head changed everything. Nice low end whoompf with a high end click going on. 20" kick drum.

With toms, again I went from Pinstripe top heads with clear ambassador bottoms to coated ambassador tops and it opened things up a lot. I let my drums ring and I like it, but I also like to futz with tuning them. For dampening, I've heard that a small patch of folded paper towel works good, but I let 'em loose.

Given that I play a trap kit and I'm using different mics for overheads, I only use 4 mics on my kit. 57 snare, Beta 52 kick, 2 MXL 2001 El Cheap-0 "overheads". I've tried all kinds of stuff with the condensers, but what works best is sticking the front side of the capsule aimed at a tom somewhat, with the mic capsule sort of floating in between a tom and a cymbal. Even though the mics are cardioid, the back of the capsule has a response curve that picks up high end stuff, and it does ok with the cymbals like this. (this is more popular with figure 8 mics, and having the mic in striking range from a stick is something to consider. I learned the easy way - dented one of my own, it's cheap, not the best and I don't care - it still works) The extra bass response from having these things closer to the toms helps out. Another approach is to back the mics up a bit and aim them sort of at the front of the kit, with the imagined cardioid pattern encompasing one half of the kit or the other. You can mic cymbals from above or below, but they don't radiate sound off the edge so it's poor placement to have the mics level with the cymbals. I've tried other stuff that doesn't seem to work as well like raising the mics higher. Makes it thin, but it might be the mics I'm using as well, or the room. Pencil condensers are more popular for overheads.

One reason why I'm using only 4 mics is that I only have 4 input channels to my DAW. Regardless, when you set up a lot of mics on anything, you're running the risk of wonky sound through phase cancellation. On a good day when my drums sound right and the planets align properly, I can get a decent drum sound this way. I'd definitely try fewer mics before throwing money at anything.

Heads and tuning are critical, and moving the mics around a bit can make a lot of difference. I always check the mix in mono to make sure the sound isn't weak and wonky from phase cancellation.

There are a million ways to mic drums.


sl
 
Thanks! The kit is a Pearl Master Series... 2 rack toms, 2 floor toms, single kick with a double pedal. I'm not sure what the sizes are (I'm not the drummer) but they are pretty large. I think the floor toms are 16" and 18" but I could be wrong. He bought the kit last October. The heads are what came on it, I actually suggested getting new heads but he hasn't gotten them yet.
I messed around with the EQ and compression on the scratch tracks this morning and the kick seems a little better but still too airy sounding. TOday we are gonna switch out beaters (felt to plastic) and I'm going to try to convince him to buy new heads.
Everything I have read on this board seems to state the same thing..."don't try to mic the whole kit individually". I have tried to explain this to the drummer but he insists on micing everything. For some reason, I am gonna try it to see what happens but I think I already know what the outcome will be. Thanks for the info.
As for the compression, is it best to run the mics into the compression and then into my recorder or send the mics directly into the recorder and use the AUX lines to control the effect?
 
solo169 said:
Thanks! The kit is a Pearl Master Series... 2 rack toms, 2 floor toms, single kick with a double pedal. I'm not sure what the sizes are (I'm not the drummer) but they are pretty large. I think the floor toms are 16" and 18" but I could be wrong. He bought the kit last October. The heads are what came on it, I actually suggested getting new heads but he hasn't gotten them yet.
I messed around with the EQ and compression on the scratch tracks this morning and the kick seems a little better but still too airy sounding. TOday we are gonna switch out beaters (felt to plastic) and I'm going to try to convince him to buy new heads.
Everything I have read on this board seems to state the same thing..."don't try to mic the whole kit individually". I have tried to explain this to the drummer but he insists on micing everything. For some reason, I am gonna try it to see what happens but I think I already know what the outcome will be. Thanks for the info.
As for the compression, is it best to run the mics into the compression and then into my recorder or send the mics directly into the recorder and use the AUX lines to control the effect?
Click to expand...


There's a lot of people that get great results micing the toms individually, or maybe one mic in between 2 toms. The thing is, it usually isn't necessary and it can get tricky. If the drummer wants the toms miced and you can't convince him otherwise, you can still try to get a good impression of the whole kit with overheads. You can put tom mics up and print the tracks, but if you don't end up using them when you mix then they won't cause any phase problems at all. Remember the 3 to 1 rule when placing your mics.

The idea of swapping beaters should change the sound a bit. The felt ones are common, the harder plastic or wood beaters get more of that "click" sound. You can also fine tune this a bit with where you point the mic from inside the drum. Straight at the beaters for more click, off to the side at the floor toms for less. The Beta 52's give lots of low end, a good chunk of high end and scoop out a lot of mids. This might not sound the greatest on its own, but the idea is to be able to hear the kick clearly in the mix with other instruments. I'd hold off on EQ until everything's there. Mids are for guitars and snare and other stuff.

For compression, if you don't know how to use a compressor, don't print with one. If you can use any kind of a software compressor to experiment, it will give you an idea of how to use them properly. Make backup copies of your files first. Sometimes people like to compress the snot out of a snare drum mic. Attack and release times are very important to get the right sound. There are others that can advise you way better than me on this.

Drum heads come down to personal preference. Obviously I like Ambassadors, but there's lots of other stuff. I don't like kick heads with those dampener rings on them, because it seems like a one trick pony. You can't tune the things. Tuning the drums is still the most critical thing, and it's an art form that I'm not an expert at. If the drum rings and sounds musical, and a bit louder than normal, you're close to the right spot. If the ring sounds bad, and trying to correct it leads to an argument, your best course would probably be to dampen the drums. You can buy mylar rings that do this pretty well, or experiment with tape and stuff. Keeping the drummer happy will lead to better recordings.


Bear in mind that I'm a home recordist as well, not a pro.


sl
 
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