MAJOR sound problem... please help!

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me_arv

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Firstly sorry for this long post!!
I'm well behind producing my bands new demo (see www.M-80.co.uk - free publicity, love it), have used sonar for years but have just got myself a new PC and a Edriol DA-2496.

Basically the sound i get from CD playback is fine, but when recording (worsens the more tracks loaded in sonar) there is an interference. I took the edriol back to Turnkey where it came from, they tested it and heard my recorded files & decided to just give me another Edirol and see if it worked. Same problem! made me think it was a problem with the system rather than the card itself.

1st track recorded is fine, its the subsequent ones, i get a regular interference (glitchy type thing) as if every time sonar goes to load more info it need to lower the quality its recording and glitches me. So have tried every possible buffer setting under the sun, moved the PCI card to a different slot and now researching the internet like mad...

Spec:
AMD 64 3400+
ASUS K8VSE DELUXE Mother Board
XP service pack 2
1GB RAM DDR 400
2 x 120Gb Via SATA Raid 0 SCSI
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700LE
Edirol DA-2496 8in/8out (PCI & breakout)
other PCI bits: Firewire port, dial-up modem and USB hub
CDR/W DVD combi
+ onboard sound which is disabled
anything else you need to know?!

Has anyone else had this problem or know how to solve it? I've tried tuning XP to work better for audio (www.musicxp.net) I've sorted the service pack 2/sonar problem, tried both asio and wdm within sonar and Edirol and Turnkey's help guys are running out of ideas!! i've seen posts from people with SATA, IRQ and PCI problems on the net but this is a new PC-flying machine and a new Soundcard - would i still need to play about with stuff to make it work?!!

there are no IRQ conflicts, graphics acceleration is off, onboard sound and firewire are disabled in the bios!!! what can it be...?

any help or advice would be greatly appreciated...
 
I'm slightly inclined to believe that you may be getting your issues from your SATA RAID arrangement.
If you have access to a decent IDE ATA 100/133 drive, you may want to connect it up and point Sonar to it as the working directory for all of the audio.
I'm not the best authority on RAID, but RAID 0 is basically using two drives as one and could still be suffering thoughput issues of streaming the audio data and running the OS and programs from that "single disk" arrangement.
Also your SCSI controller, is that an ad-on PCI card? If so .... not good. PCI bandwidth issues with the soundcard!
Doesn't that VIA K8T800 chipset use the VT8237 Southbridge?
You should have SATA support natively on the Southbridge.
It would mean formating and reinstalling everything, but you should be able to run the SATA drives off of the Southbridge's controller as separate channels. Not in a RAID array. OS and programs on one disk and audio data on the other.
Just some things to think about.
Hope it helps.

-Ken
 
crankz1 said:
I'm slightly inclined to believe that you may be getting your issues from your SATA RAID arrangement.
If you have access to a decent IDE ATA 100/133 drive, you may want to connect it up and point Sonar to it as the working directory for all of the audio.
I'm not the best authority on RAID, but RAID 0 is basically using two drives as one and could still be suffering thoughput issues of streaming the audio data and running the OS and programs from that "single disk" arrangement.
Also your SCSI controller, is that an ad-on PCI card? If so .... not good. PCI bandwidth issues with the soundcard!
Doesn't that VIA K8T800 chipset use the VT8237 Southbridge?
You should have SATA support natively on the Southbridge.
It would mean formating and reinstalling everything, but you should be able to run the SATA drives off of the Southbridge's controller as separate channels. Not in a RAID array. OS and programs on one disk and audio data on the other.
Just some things to think about.
Hope it helps.

-Ken
Click to expand...

Raid is superior to running your drives normally
 
Teacher said:
Raid is superior to running your drives normally
Click to expand...

This may be true. I don't know first hand whether it is or isn't. :confused:
I do know that running the SATA controller off of the PCI bus isn't superior by any means.
-Edited- In terms of DAW usage ... that is.
 
Guys I'd hate to cause a fight but I've just plugged my old IDE hard drive in and pointed all the sonar audio to it and its solved the problem!!

BUT I now have a 115GB IDE drive for audio which i think is slower than my SATA drives which are 120GB each but stuck in their useless (for audio anyway) RAID 0! any tips, clues/idea how best to un-raid them and use them ??

its not a PCI SCSI by the way... how do i get them seperate?
 
I don't know that SATA drives are amazingly faster then ATA133 IDE drives...seriously. I haven't seen any benchmarks or reviews that tell me this.

I'm running two 120 gig Western Digital ATA133 IDE's (8 meg buffers) and my performance is just fine. One drive is solely dedicated to audio and runs like a champ.
 
Teacher said:
Raid is superior to running your drives normally
Click to expand...

Well, RAID 0 - striping - is in theory FASTER, if the RAID is done in hardware.
However, there are always other factors. I would not bother with RAID 0, even if it is faster, because it doubles your chances of losing all your data. Why? Because the failure of one drive means that the data on both drives are junk.

I'd venture to say that most of us do just fine with ATA-100 drives and a regime of backups. There's a lot to be said for using tried and true technology, rather than living on the bleeding edge...
 
heres some ideas to try if you still get glitches.
but these might not solve the problem.
i would get a tech to check your system out. particularly if it was not built by a tech.
1. there is a utility at prorec.com called diskbench.
it will tell you the throughput of your drives. and number of tracks.
if you see high track numbers like 100 plus your drive should be fine.
2. try and see if your problems disappear when only the sound interface
card for the edirol is in a slot. ie: with no other pci slot containing anything.
you might also see if not having any usb connected device does anything.
failing that i would suggest respectfully another interface.
i'm afraid ive never used an edirol device.
just some ideas to try. personally i dont use raid.
you have a great processor and system there. i think its just a question of finding the right sound interface for it possibly.
if you DO have to replace the interface i would suggest whoever you think of going with next you contact their tech support to ensure before you buy it that you wont have any issues.
all the best. and i hope at least one suggestion works.
 
Hi Manning, I've used dskbench today, got amazing results from the sata raid 0 drives but having got audio to stream ok from my 'new' IDE drive i tested that and it was nowhere near as good. satas were able to do 200+ tracks and the IDE around 44ish

I know thats ok but......?!?!?!?
 
hmm - a good normal modern 7200 rpm ide drive should get 100 plus using diskbench.
if diskbench read/wrote to your sata ok then it could be but i'm not sure the sound interface. if however the glitches go when the old ide drive is connected it could be a sata issue. sometimes certain sound interfaces just dont work well with certain configs. the next step i would try is having the edirol in a slot by itself with no other pci slots filled. and see if the glitches disappear. i know its a pain. but its a process of elimination.
i would also google to see if others have problems with the edirol.
let me ask you this. using the sata drive approach and for arguments sake just recording with on board sound do you get glitches. ???
forgetting of course the inferior quality of the on board sound.
if you dont get glitches using the on board sound and your hi speed sata
then this points to maybe the edirol as the issue. presumably drivers came
with the edirol. you might want to assess if there are newer drivers.
sorry - but i'm trying to help the best i can.
if none of what ive posted helps and other programs work fine using sata
(like normal non audio pc programs - ie: on eveything else the system is working with no crashes , and when you initiate programs they start lickety split, and the system is super fast - as it should be) then its probably the edirol thats the problem. but this is conjecture on my part.
peace.
ps - just tell me with normal non audio progs if the system is fast with sata.
because thats a clue for me. peace.
 
me_arv said:
Guys I'd hate to cause a fight but I've just plugged my old IDE hard drive in and pointed all the sonar audio to it and its solved the problem!!

BUT I now have a 115GB IDE drive for audio which i think is slower than my SATA drives which are 120GB each but stuck in their useless (for audio anyway) RAID 0! any tips, clues/idea how best to un-raid them and use them ??

its not a PCI SCSI by the way... how do i get them seperate?
Click to expand...

Wish I knew how to separate them, but without having your computer in front of me ... it would be hard to say.
My thoughts would be in the BIOS. There may be an option to run the SATA controller in enhanced mode, allowing it to act as two separate channels. At least thats my understanding of my Abit IC7-G mobo and it's Intel 875P chipset.
Bear in mind that you will have to format and re-install everything if you decide to nix the RAID 0 and run separate channels.
Personally, I just run ATA 133 drives on separate IDE controllers and am quite pleased with the performance.
Also, unless it has been updated, last I heard was that dskbench wasn't reporting accurately in XP. How much inaccuracy is beyond me.
You may want to check and be certain that DMA is enabled on the IDE channel that you are using that old drive on and that it's the only device on that IDE controller.
Any rate ... glad to hear that my speculation of your RAID array was the problem causer. I'd just heard of many people having DAW issues with certain RAID configurations in the past.

Good luck with it and let us know how you come out. :cool:

-Ken
 
What's the spin rate on them there 120's, and what brand are they?
 
do a google for "ulysses monitor" ... its a neat little program (similar to diskbench i guess) with a great help-file ...

there you can monitor and see where the problem originates (cpu, memory, disk) ...

also make sure your PCI latencies are OK (google "dbldawg" - its on the same site as ulysses) ... also make sure DMA for your drives is OK and you dont have any shared IRQs w/ your audio interface (disable all "not used" onboard peripherals, like modem, com1, etc...)

any questions - just drop a line

bye
alfred
 
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