Major problem with bleeding drums!

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SolomonsRequest

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Hello!
I have a few songs where I'm having a real rough time eq'ing drums because the snare mic (or kick mic) picked up way to much high-hat during the recording.

Now the problem is, when I cut some of the ugly mids from the bleeding hat, I lose important frequencies on the snare. Theres a song where this happens with the kick, too.

Please bring on the ideas :) I would really appreciate it!

S/R
 
It could be that the hats aren't suited to recording. I've had guys come here to record with kits that are more suited to playing live than recording (thicker cymbals and hats) where it was next to impossible to get the hi hat under controll.
With the snare mic, try to position it so that the hats are at the rear of the mic. With the kick, you can try to cover it with a moving blanket or something to cut down of the bleed. Personally, I don't like gating as I feel it does more damage than good.
 
You can always try gating, though. It doesn't work often, but if the drummer played a certain way, then it really can work. It's a good idea to at least try...though I agree with Track Rat that it more often than not sucks.

Darth
 
Thanks Track rat, on future recordings I will definately use better mic positioning :). But as for my problem now, I need to find a solution, and re-recording a few songs is not an option due to time restraints and just flat out spending wayyyyy too much time on this album.

I may have to try a gate on the recorded parts though, although I agree, that can make it worse.

Any other suggestions?

S/R
 
Yah Darth I will try the gating thing, I remember doing on one song and it worked o.k. ONe thing I tried which was kind of cool, was that I took and muted the hat and analyzed it to find what frequency the peaks were, then I went into the snare and cut those frequencies with a narrow Q. But all in all, I still don't get that fuzzy feeling when I hear the drums.

S/R
 
If you have the hat recorded on a seperate track, you might try flippin that track out of phase and using it to cancel the abundance of hat on the other tracks. Sometimes it works...sometimes it doesn't, but it might be worth a try.
 
well....if you're overheads are placed well, do you actaully need the snare drum mic.

review the drum mix and see if you need it. ifyou dont, problem should be solved!
 
Use a lower ratio (if youre doing 4:1 ...do 2.5:1) with less gain that will leave (or emphasize) transients against a lower decay.
 
Thanks for the replies :)

MONTE: If your still here, what you said sounds like an awesome thing to try and I've heard of it before, but (silly me) how do you do that? With a plugin?

LongWaveStudio: Overheads is an area of weakness. I put a CAD on kick, 57 on snare top, sm58 on bottom, beta58's on left ride and another on toms, and then I use a sennheiser 421 as an overhead but on the hat side. So I don't really do the overhead thing because of lack of mics but if anyones got a different solution to this setup, feel free to hollar :).

JuSumPilgrim: Sorry are you referring to compressing the kick/snare?

peace, S/R
 
Overheads

Hello,
I think LongWaveStudio is on to something... when I record acoustic drums... I never close mic the kit. I just use two overheads (SDC mics) and a single LDC about 5 or so feet away in front about 3 or so feet off the ground.

This I believe captures a more realistic representation of the kit... plus as an added bonus you never have to worry about bleeds!

The one thing is, and its too bad re-tracking isn't an option, it takes more playing around with positioning of the overheads to make sure you have a good balance of cymbols to drums... one thing I was always weirded-out by was some of the totally funky overhead positions you'd find yourself with to get a good sound.

Perhaps some food for thought for your next session?
 
depending on the song, and the style of drumming, it may be possible to totally eliminate the need for a snare mic.

countless times, i have used the snare from the overheads, because they were positioned in such a way to let me get a great sound. i might use the snare track to trigger a reverb, but it might not be routed to the main mix.

my advice, is put a mic on everything you can, BUT, at mixdown, dont force yourself to use it all, just because it's there. think about it. if the track is awesome without the snare drum mic, then fine!

it's wise to mic up all you can, for worst case scenarios...i.e. your overheads sound shite.
 
Plus One,

I would use a mic on the kick drum. overheads wont always give you a great bass drum tone to work with.
 
LongWaveStudio said:
Plus One,

I would use a mic on the kick drum. overheads wont always give you a great bass drum tone to work with.
Click to expand...

That's what I use the LDC for :)

I put the LDC out in front of the kit, approx 3 feet of the deck. I typically don't like big bassy clicky kick sounds... i like the more natural sound of that drum (and really all drums).

The LDC picks up a lot of room ambience but also picks up a lot of the low-end produced by the kick drum.

Sometimes I've had a 421 *in* the kick, but that was only mixed in to help out the LDC in the room. If you listen to stuff like Rodan... the effect makes for a very "airy" and natural sounding kit which is what I really try to achieve (when I can record a real kit... now-a-days I record my Clavia ddrum4 kit).
 
sorry mate, i thought you were using the LD mic strictly for ambience.
 
Moving Blankets over the bass drum and mic inside near the beater, cut the low bass and gate in the mix.
 
Solution:

On the snare track: Use a multiband compressor on the higher frequencies, like from 4K on up. That should tame the hi-hat without messing much with the snare. Also, try boosing 200hz a few decibals. That should bring the snare out a bit more.
 
All the advice is good and I'm grateful! We have 1 more tune to track on for our new CD and I'm thinking about trying the overhead thing, although I'd have to use shure beta58's to do it because I'd wanna use my CAD for the kick. I like the idea of a blanket between the kick and rest of the kit if i'm close micing.

But as for the older tracks I will try the gating, I will download and try the phasing plugin if that dont work, and maybe just muting the snare track and seeing if anything else picked up enough if it.

Thanks again! :)

Peace, S/R
 
bleeding drums

The first and best thing to do is find the proper mic placement that gives the best snare tone while cutting out the maximum hat bleed. You will not eliminate hi hat in your snare track. I've heard of punching a hole in the bottom of a styrofoam cup and fitting it over the snare mic, but that may make for a wierd sound-depending on your mic. I still use good old fashioned SM57's and Beta 57's because they do such a great job of rejecting sound from the rear. The only time I get bad snare tracks is when a drummer brings me a bad snare drum!


Micslut
 
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