Main Vocals in the Center, Sounds Thin

[mtardif]

Hey all, I'm working on a song where I'm running the main vocals dead center including compression and a little reverb on that one track. It sounded a little thin to me so I started checking other instruments to see where there might be some contention in the middle frequencies. I'm not finding much that would cause problems (I've only been working at this for like 6mths, so there may be something there I'm not finding ).

But I read an article about doubling up the mono vocal and sending each to an aux bus, adding the reverb there, and then sending the wet signal back not centered, but out left and right. I messed around with it a little bit, and from what I could fumble through, it made the vocals so much fuller. Is that 'standard' (I know nothing is really standard, but hopefully you get the point) to have vocal effects not in the middle??

-Thanks

 

[Porter]

Have you tried turning off the compression...

Just a suggestion, plus I'm pretty sure you can run a stereo reverb on mono track..

Porter

 

[mallcore pop]

Is that 'standard' (I know nothing is really standard, but hopefully you get the point) to have vocal effects not in the middle??
-Thanks

Yes, very much so. Hardpanning fx lets you "sit" the track without having to drown it in that effect.

Also, are you using makeup gain when you compress?

MP

 

[mtardif]

Seems like I'll need to mess with the compression more than worrying about getting the effects out of the center. I pretty sure (I'm at work so I can't check) that there's only a slight amount, threshhold about -10, ratio ~3, attack and release both medium. I think I've got the makeup gain just under 2db.

The song is a ballad, but its about selfish woman so it has a lot of harsh vocal parts mixed in with some nice softer parts. So I definitely need some compression to smooth things out. Thought about taking the compression off and using only volume envelopes to adjust, but I got lazy.

Selfish woman, they're always messing things up!!

 

[moskus]

Is that 'standard' (I know nothing is really standard, but hopefully you get the point) to have vocal effects not in the middle??

The standard is to have the lead vocal more or less dead center.

But who like rules? Screw them!

Really, if it sounds good then use it! The fastest way to test it is to ese the Cakewalk effect "FXChorus" and choose the Stereo Spread preset.

 

[mtardif]

Re: Re: Main Vocals in the Center, Sounds Thin

"FXChorus" and choose the Stereo Spread preset.

Good suggestion! I forgot that stereo spread preset was in there. I've actually used it once laying down a solo violin part, gave it that large orchestral feel. I'll have to go play around. If I could only get out of work!!
Thanks

 

[mixsit]

Don't give up on envelopes. From my humble pov, that is where on important tracks, the fine tuning can really pay off, even after compression. If you go there, another thing to consider is that Gain (clip) envelopes work ahead of the compressor -and play into the compressor's threshold setting, vs Track envelopes after the comp. Gives lots of angles to play with the density.
Good hunting.
Wayne

 

[mtardif]

Gain (clip) envelopes work ahead of the compressor

??? Never heard of, at least in a Sonar sense. Is it possible in Sonar to do that? and if so could you give me a short rundown of how? I've only used the volume and pan envelopes.

 

[moskus]

Okay, say you've made some complex Volume-envelopes on some tracks. Then you find that the guitar is too low and the bass is too high. *Sigh* you need to adjust all those beautiful nodes on the envelopes.

No! You just adjust the "overal" volume with the Gain control!

But I didn't think that the gain worked before the compressor (or whatever effect) in Sonar. Am I wrong?

 

[Son of Mixerman]

Sounds like they are thin because of phase cancellation because the doubling tracks were copied but not phase shifted enough?



SoMm

 

[mixsit]

...No! You just adjust the "overal" volume with the Gain control!

But I didn't think that the gain worked before the compressor (or whatever effect) in Sonar. Am I wrong?

Oh yea! It's a beautifull thing. When you're knee deep in a track full of envelopes, you can grab them all, or go to Gain which is clip envelopes. (or 'Offset mode' is another option -but watch that one. If your like me and you forget you were there, it bites.) Sometimes I make a s**t load of very small moves with one set, then use the other set to overlay broader moves. Seems easier sometimes to grab one node area than having to grab a half dozen.
And yes, Clips' are pre-send/insert, Tracks' are post. Usually not a big deal I think, but for example, a punch is hotter than the rest of the track, it hits the comp harder- go to a clip envelope to bring it in line.

Sonar vs Mackie? Gimmy a break.
Wayne

 

[mixsit]

Sounds like they are thin because of phase cancellation because the doubling tracks were copied but not phase shifted enough?

SoMm

Or it could be as simple as getting closer to the mic, or a different mic?

 

[mtardif]

Or it could be as simple as getting closer to the mic, or a different mic?

It could be, but it sounds pretty sweet when it's sitting just with the drums, bass, and acoustic. I really just think I'm getting some contention with clean electric track. I'm gonna keep working on it and post it up in the Clinic shortly.