Madonna the guitarist?

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Flamin Lip

Flamin Lip

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Ok, hate to admit it, but I watched the Madonna Concert on HBO with my wife(had to qualify that), and she appeared to actually be playing guitar.

My question, is, was she actually turned up in the mix, and was it my imagination, but she did OK w/ all of the rudimentary barre chords and actually took a small solo? Just wanted to know what everyone thought about this.

By the way, I cant stand Madonna, but at least she had the good taste to be playing a LP.
 
The answer is yes I would have sex with Madonna...or better yet, watch my wife have sex with her:eek: .......or better yet, have sex with her and my wife at the same time:D .....

and yes she was playing and it was up in the mix....
 
dammit, gotta agree with c7sus a little.....my opinion of her went up when I heard about her guitar thing....she might be a musician yet.....

her career has consisted of hard work and lotsa marketing, but very little substance...and her talent is, well, pretty mediocre in my opinion....she was and is sorta manufactured, even if it was largely her own doing...but the buying public bought the scam......I wish she'd go away and take all the wannabees that followed with her.....

I have this awful feeling she'll be onstage and knocked up, wearing the funnel tits, at age 60.....gibs
 
I have this awful feeling she'll be onstage and knocked up, wearing the funnel tits, at age 60

Thanks gibs, just what I needed...something else to give me nightmares.....I need to buy stock in Nytol :p
 
Reminds me of an anecdote... this was not long after some nude pictures of Madonna had been published in Penthouse, I think it was...

Anyway, I was in line outside the Last Day Saloon in San Francisco waiting to see Albert Collins... and there was a power failure and so they kept us all outside on the sidewalk for a while... the band bus was parked there still, and one of the crew was hanging there chatting to a couple of sweet young things, cranking the old charm up to HIGH... First I overheard his opening line, "So what do you girls do besides blow people's minds?" Not long after, I overheard him ask, "well, who do you girls listen to?" and one of them admitted a fondness for Madonna. He nodded sagely, said, "Yeah, I like Madonna. She got nice nipples."
 
I'm taking my life in my hands by saying this, but here goes:
THe fact that Madonna is learning to play the guitar does nothing to augment her credibility for me, simply because the guitar is such an incredibly easy instrument to play. I mean, look at some of the losers that can play it! (Yes, me included.)
I love the guitar because it can be approached on so many levels: anywhere from cowboy chords and campfire songs to classical and fusion, to flamenco etc, etc, etc,. And each utilizes an entirely new approach to tone, technique, and gear. But let's be real. Just about anyone with fingers can pick up to basics in a month, and Madonna is living proof.
Aaron
http://www.aaroncheney.com
 
I may be way better than Madonna at playing guitar....but she makes WAY more money than I do doing it. I think it's cool she plays, and plays nice guitars, Les Pauls and Breedlove acoustics. she does have nice taste in guitars, I'll give her that, too.

H2H
 
Great story!

Madonna does deserve some kudos for navigating her own course through the whirling cesspool of pop music. I don't think she did it by being any kind of a great musician though. She did it by making herself a spectacle.

"What a long strange trip it's been..."

Aaron
http://www.aaroncheney.com
 
hmmm...

Never really thought about it. I guess it would be someone that can create in the language of music. Someone that understands how it works and can manipulate it to create something of value. (And I guess the meaning of "value" could be debated.)
I don't think a performer or a musical entertainer is necessarily a musician. For example, was Frank Sinatra a great musician? I don't really think so. He was a great singer. Is Brittney spears? No. Were the Beatles? Yes, I think they were. I think they were probably the epitome of what I consider a great musician to be. They weren't super great instrumentalists or singers, but they absolutley knew how to create music. The could compose and arrange like nobody's business!
On the other hand, was Andres Sogovia and good musician? Well, he was a great guitarist. Did he create anything new? Not that I know of (though I'm not super knowlegable regarding his work). John Williams? Yes. Back Street Boys? No. Sting? Yes. Pavoratti? No. Mel Torme? Yes. Elvis? No.
I can see how this could quickly become a game of semantics. It just depends on how loosely you want to use the term "musician". But to me a "musician" is something more than a singer or instrumentalist or entertainer. It's more akin to composer, or songwriter, although I'm not sure I could call a songwriter that couldn't play any instruments a musician either.
I have to admit none of my ideas here are set in stone. I'm just sort of brainstorming to come up with some kind of an answer. What do you think, Gidge? Am I close?
Aaron
http://www.aaroncheney.com

p.s. I guess I would put Madonna in the same category with someone like David Lee Roth. Marginal musical skills, but a very skilled entertainer and performer.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of "is a drummer a musician?".....

seriously, wouldnt a vocalist be considered a musician?......
 
I would think that a vocalist is a musican..there voice is a instr.
and grouped together as a chorus they can create chords.If acapella solo voice is music then they gotta musicans also...

Don
 
i wouldn't consider madonna to be a vocalist, anymore than i'd consider someone who can change a tire a mechanic; however, i've always respected her ability to stay HOT. no one in music history has every done so much with so little. whether it's a matter of picking the write producers and choosing the right songs she still did it better than any other pop princess.

consider that her and cyndi lauper became HOT around the same time.

i've also got to respect a person who: with so many millions in the bank and aging, gracefully, but aging still would learn a new skill with the prospect of embarrassing herself to no end.
 
Re: hmmm...

Aaron Cheney said:

I don't think a performer or a musical entertainer is necessarily a musician.
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I have to say that I agree 100%. I find myself taken back to highschool, being back in concert band. I think of some of the players that made all-state, that could play the living shit out of their instruments. Then I heard some of the "compositions" they would attempt to write. Absolutely attrocious. This was really made evident in college music theory, where some of these same virtuoso's on their instruments would write compositions for theory. Again, instrumental ability seemed to have nothing to do with the quality of their music. I just think of that one kid that played trombone so totally average, and then that song he wrote for piano (which he barely even plays), which just blew almost all the others compositions away. So much feeling.

So I think of it in terms of this: performers and instrumentalists are like actors, and musicians are like directors. Directors may or may not be able to act as well as the actors, but they know so much more than just acting. That's not to say that one of the actors doesn't have a potential talent for being a director. It just means that their ability to replicate is not necessarily in direct proportion to their ability to create.
 
I used to play the trombone....

does that make me a musician?
 
It's pretty easy to have "nice taste" in guitars when you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
 
asi9, and Aaron to a lesser extent, you guys are way,way way off, not even close. Was Segovia a great Musician? Incredible. Ever Heard Pavarotti do real Opera? Amazing.Fabulous Musician, one of the best.

Asi9, you are confusing musicianship with songwriting and composing, they have nothing in common. I am I a good musician?I am a great musician, no doubt (and handsome and modest). Am I a good songwriter? No. They have nothing in common.

How bout the Session guys who play on others records? Of course they are great musicians. Symphony folks dont compose or write songs, but who cares, what does that have to do with MAKING Music?

What makes a great musician?

1. The ability to listen, blend, emulate,lead, follow.

2. The ability to get along with others.

3. The ability to intrepret, without improvising.

4. A clear knowledge of the musical language

5. Technical Prowess on an instrument or voice (Composition could be considered an instrument)

6. A way to convey your musical feelings to an audience

7. The ability to appreciate all types of music, and all types of artists.

8. An understanding of many musical genres and forms, and the ability to adapt and conform to them.

9 A knowledge of pitch, and the ability to sing or play in tune

10. The ol', unscientific "you got it" thingee.

Good musicians are very aware of their surroundings, are very focused on the big picture, know when to step back when their part isnt the lead, dont throw temper tantrums.

Good Musicians show up on time, have a pencil, treat their instrument with extreme respect. Good Musicians focus on the product: the music. Great Musicians dont practice rock star moves,they practice music.

Finally, the big one: Great Musicians practice A LOT. I always did five hours a day min. when I was growing up.

So there you go. Britney does have some perky knockers though...
 
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Jeez, I didn't know there was a list! I must have skipped the wrong day of high school and missed the crucial band class where it got handed out! I don't have any Dave K records, so I can't really say whether you are a great musician or not, just that I don't know who you are.

1. The ability to listen, blend, emulate, lead, follow.
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Maybe for a jazz musician or a concert musician, but the great rock musicians aren't revered for blending and following.

2. The ability to get along with others.
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This has nothing to do with musicianship.

3. The ability to intrepret, without improvising.
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umm, what's "intrepret?" sounds again like you're talking about classical music. There is a great deal of improvisation in rock music, and jazz is 99% improv.

7. The ability to appreciate all types of music, and all types of artists.
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why is this necessary to be a great musician? do you have to appreciate country music, or dark metal, if you only play swing? does ANYONE have to appreciate modern pop, or the crap they call "new metal" to be a musician?

8. An understanding of many musical genres and forms, and the ability to adapt and conform to them.
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Many great musicians only understand the blues. I can't imagine that greatness always springs from adaptation and conformity. I think it's more about originality.

Good musicians are very aware of their surroundings, are very focused on the big picture, know when to step back when their part isnt the lead, dont throw temper tantrums.
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Many great musicians are probably reprehensible assholes with egos the size of Jupiter. That doesn't mean they're any less great, does it?

Good Musicians show up on time, have a pencil, treat their instrument with extreme respect.
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Yeah, when they're showing up for band class. I'm trying to imagine Hendrix whipping out a pencil after he lights his guitar on fire. He must not have been a good musician; he burned more guitars than I will ever own. Never mind that he was one of the greatest innovators (I hesitate to say "musicians") in modern music.
 
Charger, If Jimi had a pencil, he would have chewed it often, decreasing his drug use.

I think maybe you are confusing past and present. I dont see a lot of people destroying guitars anymore. The days of Townsend asking a crowd " Does anybody know how to play the drums" are gone.

Believe me, getting along with others is very important.
Sure, there are exceptions to every rule, and maybe Elton John is an asswipe prima donna who is difficult and doesnt own a pencil, and a good musician. The qualities I mention are for the truly great musicians, not just rock stars.
 
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