mackie conversion question?

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Freudian Slip

Freudian Slip

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I am wondering if anyone knows of a way to convert the insert/direct out (at one click in) from strictly post pre to post eq, mute, fader? I am looking at having to buy a new mixer with direct out post "full channel strip". I'm looking at at least $2K. I am now working with a sr24X4 (that I'd love to convert). If I make the jump I will more than likely go for a used mackie 32X8. My other option is the new onyx boards but I see they need special cables for direct out (that I can find no info on) and they cost more than a used 32X8 that comes with post fader direct out.

Any info or suggestions is greatly appreitiated.

thanks

F.S.
 
Let me know if I need to word this different? I know there are mods described for the aux's in the owners manual but was hoping someone knew something I did not.


F.S.
 
Well I know there are several Mods out there for Mackie and other consoles and I"m sure if you had the electronics skills you could do it but I haven"t personally done it my self but I have had to repair a few Mixers and know that doing any mods would require a basic understanding of audio electronics and you would need to have a schematic of your console so you knew were to make the changes or have someone with you who knows what there doing to guide you through it....

I know someone who does Console upgrades and Mods who you could probably send your console to for the Upgrades and he does very good work and could probably upgrade the console in so many ways that it would be a Top of the line mixer....

He does the upgrade/Mods you are talking about but he also does Capacitor upgrades and Transformer upgrades and Power supply upgrades and Opamp upgrades ect....

His name is "Jim Williams" and he hangs out at the "GearSluts" forum sometimes so if you go there and find his profile you could send him a message and see what he can do for you.....

Good luck
 
I am not aware of any Mackie mods that Jim does. Modifying a cheaply built console like a Mackie is usually far more trouble than it is worth due to the way it was designed. Jim does good work though and knows his stuff pretty well. As far as Jim making your Mackie into a "top of the line mixer", this is really far fetched. He may be able to make a Mackie a more solid little mixer, but even Jim's custom designs have never been considered "top of the line".
 
Thanks for the info guys. I'm currently looking at used boards. I am a little gun shy because I had a pretty nice Yammaha board (before they came out with the cheaper lines) and it didn't make it 5 years without getting scratchy pots. My mackie may be cheap but not a single problem in 10 plus years.
I guess it's all relative.

Thinking about a used soundcraft I don't think I can afford a gost but maybe an older style spirit.
F.S.
 
Freudian Slip said:
I am wondering if anyone knows of a way to convert the insert/direct out (at one click in) from strictly post pre to post eq, mute, fader? I am looking at having to buy a new mixer with direct out post "full channel strip". I'm looking at at least $2K. I am now working with a sr24X4 (that I'd love to convert). If I make the jump I will more than likely go for a used mackie 32X8. My other option is the new onyx boards but I see they need special cables for direct out (that I can find no info on) and they cost more than a used 32X8 that comes with post fader direct out.

Any info or suggestions is greatly appreitiated.

thanks

F.S.

The mod you mention is in their instruction manual, and also on the website I believe. It involves clipping a trace on the circuit board If I recall correctly.
 
Anfontan said:
The mod you mention is in their instruction manual, and also on the website I believe. It involves clipping a trace on the circuit board If I recall correctly.

The mods on their website are for modding the aux sends, not the direct outs. The issue here is that the inserts on each channel come right after the trim on most consumer-level consoles, and because Mackie uses the insert send for the direct out, your direct outs are pre-EQ, pre-sends, and pre-fader. Modifying this is NOT a simple trace cut - it would require some pretty significant work to the board. You'd have to find a way to tap into the signal that was going to sends 5 and 6, which IS doable, but it might also create problems of impedance/etc internally. If that guy Jim is good, he could probably pull it off... but I'd probably recommend getting a different board instead. If you ever wanted to resell your modded SR24*4, you'd have a hard time selling to anyone who wants to use it for live use - your inserts wouldn't work correctly (unless Jim or whomever installed a switch to make them work either way - more of a pain), and your direct outs would be post-fader and post-EQ, which would be pretty much useless for any recording of live shows.

You might look into something like a Mackie 8-bus, if you're wanting a dedicated recording console. I'm on the edge of my knowledge here, though, so look to others for recommendations for specific mixers.
 
First, inserts in every console (mega expensive or cheap) are pre everything except for the gain stage and often times the HPF. Second, inserts are always "pre-send" unless you happen to have one of the few consoles where the direct out level is controlled by an aux knob, which is an excellent feature. In this case as well though, the insert point is still "pre-send". The nature of a "send" is that it routes the signal to a new output in which case would NEVER affect an insert point. Modifying an insert point should not be too difficult from a technical standpoint, but would be a tedious job when dealing with cheaper consoles built on large PCB designs. Typically it just is no cost effective. If you were to modify an insert point to send post Gain, HPF, EQ and/or fader this would be good for recording purposes. If you try to use the console live though it will be much easier to get really bad gain structure happening, and if it were post fader, every fader move would effect the insert. This means that every time you raise a fader on a channel with a comp inserted you would also be sedning the comp more signal which in turn would greatly change how the comp was affecting your signal. If you made an insert post EQ but prefade, then EQ boosts and cuts would also affect the signal that the comp was receiving which in turn would once again change the way your compressor functions and sounds. Basically, an insert is just a pick point for signal. Signal hits the insert and is immediately sent out from the console and then back in and the signal is reinjected back into the channel strips flow to hit aux sends, EQ's etc... In order to modify the insert point, all you need to do is change where it taps the channel at. This can often be done with new traces (usually not a good option due to PCB layout and other logistical reasons) or by adding bus wires to the traces to change the signal origination and return point. On a board that has been assembled the way a Mackie has, none of these points are very readily available to work on without completely unassembling the entire console which may lead to removing (desoldering) many and possibly all of the pots in order to get clean access to the necessary points. On a modular console it is much easier because you can usually just pop out a channel, do the mod, and pop it back in.
 
I think those Mackie's can be pretty tough to work on, due to the compactness of the circuit board design. Even Mackie, when a mixer goes in for repair, they'll just replace the main board rather than work on it. In fact, they'll replace the board if even *diagnosing* the problem begins to take too long. That's what happened when I brought in a 1604 VLZ PRO for work a few years ago.

So I think that you are looking at a quite extensive modification job, with your tech likely burning a lot of hours ($$$) on it.
 
Actually, this mod is being done by several folks. If memory serves, it's under $200. Check the Mackie forum as it is something I've seen come up a time or two....

ooops... The mod I speak of is being done on the Onyx Firewire boards so this may not apply.
 
i have an SR24*4 as well. Xstatic is dead on. just tap the inserts for direct outs. the only thing that comes before the inserts is the gain for the mic pre.....everything else (eq, fader, sends, etc) comes after the insert.

you tap the inserts by putting the TS jack in halfway, just til it clicks the first time. someone (hosa? cbi?) makes these "direct out cables" for $10 a pop that does this for you, but you don't need em.

why do you want direct outs that come after the faders? i find the preamps on the mackie 24*4 wholly usable as long as you're just using the preamps and bypassing the rest of the board.......but i find the EQ, summing amps, etc., to really be less than stellar.

for recording purposes, you're FAR better off tapping the inserts for direct outs and bypassing all of the smackie junk.


cheers,
wade
 
Actually, you can get better gain out of a mackie when you take it post fade with the EQ out and push the fader up a little past unity. However, there really is no reason for that. Also, post fade dopes not include summing amps either. Using a Mackie off of the inserts though may get you around the nasty crosstalk problem in Mackies.
 
If the end goal of all this is to be able to use the Mackie EQ on the Direct Outs I would have to agree with the others who say it isn't worth it. Save your money for a better board or some outboard channel strips.
 
xstatic said:
Actually, you can get better gain out of a mackie when you take it post fade with the EQ out and push the fader up a little past unity. However, there really is no reason for that. Also, post fade dopes not include summing amps either. Using a Mackie off of the inserts though may get you around the nasty crosstalk problem in Mackies.

i think all of your points are spot on. you DO get more gain by going post-fader, but when you do that, there's no way to avoid the EQ or remove it from the signal path. avoiding the EQ and the rest of the channel strip is the whole reason for tapping the inserts (and just using the pres).

tapping the inserts DOES avoid the crosstalk problem, too.

still if i need a lot of gain (for a ribbon mic, etc).....i'm NOT going to be using a mackie VLZ preamp. they're just too damn noisy at the upper end of the gain range to be usable.


cheers,
wade
 
True, but the Mackie EQ does not really damage much when it is left in the null position... At least no more damage than is already done by starting with a Mackie;)
 
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