MAC people...possible convert here

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hard2Hear
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Don't Yell at Me !

Hey Jaybird, Or anybody I guess. This might sound cheesy but, Have ya ever had any experience with Cakewalks Metro ?
T.
 
-CAMN

Why do you say, get a DIGITAL mixer? Why is a digital mixer better than an analog mixer?
 
Why Digital Mixer?

I was told once if your recording digital, everything in your setup, Mixer, and whatever else could be digital, should be.
If recording digital, everything should be digital.
If recording analog, everything should be analog.
Is this true ? Sounds logical to me.
T.J.
 
my thinking is like this... mostly cuz I come from a gear-store background ( I ran a guitar shop for a while..)

--I can get a soundcard with mediocre converters and only 8 or 10 ins... and tracking is kind of a pain... and if I ever want a BETTER interface, Im screwed, cuz reselling soundcards is a bitch. OR
--I can get a Nice Digital Interface card (e.g SS Mixtreme).. 16tracks, bi-directional, 24/96.... thats about as good as its ever gonna need to get during my lifetime, right? right. THEN I can get a Digital Mixer w/TDIF outs with Mediocre Converters and a set # of ins...

the difference... later, when I get a Job (heh) I can SELL the Mixer. Easy. People buy old mixers. And get a better Mixer.
Also, I find Tracking a shitload easier with a mixer... you have faders, and trims and panpots...the list goes on. I can STILL hook up an Apogee Rosetta... to the SPIDIFs on my mixer.

Theres more.. but not now.

Jerry.. the one thing to note is that if you do 3) get a digital mixer (some would say DONT!!) but if you do.. you'd want a card with a MULTI digital ins.. and if you get a nice mixer, you wont need ANY analog ins on your card. That Tascam TDIF card has 8 channels of TDIF, bi-directional, and I think a SPIDIF Jack, also bi, and MIDI. But Im not too sure. The Mixtreme is 16 Channels, Bi-directional. It has a Spidif add-on, as well. The Mixtreme also ships with Mixer Software that can be controlled by a console surface with full automation... if youre into that.

xoox
 
oh, and TJ... That s not SO accurate...

you want to stay away from a lot of A/D/A conversions. If you can get 2 in a project, thats Ideal. One between the instruments and the CD, and one between the CD and your ear.

SO the rule of thumb is once you get the signal into the digital realm... stay there.

Some peeps track, edit and mix on tape, and THEN convert the 2trk to Digital THEN Master Digitally... Some Stay analog all the way till right before the CD... some convert right away and stay digital the whole time..... SOme Track to tape then convert THEN edit, Mix and Master...But ususally you aviod going back and forth.

xoxo
 
Sooo, why is it a good idea to get a digital mixer if recording in digital, then an analog mixer?!<>?!!
 
supposing that by 'then' you mean 'as opposed to'...

(are you from europe?)

there isn't a real advantage, it's what you think is an advantage... like to see those faders move by themselves? then take digital;)
no really, all systems have their owen advantages/disadvantages. find out whats best for you

guhlenn.

ps CAMN is this great formulated or what? i do agree with you, but the digital mixer route is definatly too expensive for me:

the tascam tdm1000 has only 4 pre's and every digital mixer which has the specs i'm looking for is outa my league... any suggestions? as i really like the idea... (and that their specs are almost always way better then soundcards...)

greetz;)
 
People, People, People!

All,

All this talk about Pro-Tools, Soundscape etc...is making my head spin!

How come no one has mentioned PARIS? Paris sounds better than Ptotools, granted it is not as widely accpected but that is another issue within the company (marketing, outsourcing, etc...). With the arrival of the new PARIS pro, things are really taking off. Check out Brian Tankersley's place. http://www.emu.com/tankersley.html

Paris has all hardware DSP based effects, a REAL control surface to move REAL faders, no more mouse crap.... It has been used to mix "Amazed" for Lonestar, "YES" for Chad Brock, as well as Sawyer Brown's new album...And a christian group called Newsong has had multiple #1's using Tank's place.

ALl this for a fraction of the price that it takes to get The Mix Plus. And, if you want ot mix in the mix plus, just take the PAF files over to a pro tools studio and convert them...easy...piece of cake.

I use PARIS on a PC (PIII 500, 256/40x40) and I LOVE IT! It has NEVER crashed on me....not once...nunca! I would like to see it perform on a G4.

I have had 32 tracks going with Renaissance EQ's and COmpressors on all the tracks, just for a test....No slowdowns, no latency.

I used to use the Layla/Logic config and once i realized that those were substandard, i dropped a little more $$ ang got PARIS and have not looked back once.

That's my opinion, FWIW.

Regards,

-gen
http://www.digitaledgestudio.com
 
An analog mixer doesnt interact with your softwares mixer.So unless your using it to mix to tape wich would entail an unnecessary a/d/a conversion its only useful for the cheapo pre amps and as a sub mixer for keyboard gear.

On the other hand, a digital mixer hooked up to tdif will
give you additional a/d/ converters(of dubious quality mind you) and you actually be able to use the faders
within the software via midi...

Id only suggest that a system in superior conception may omit the mixer and place a control surface there instead. a control surface is made soley to interact with your software, not to do A/d conversion.

then the a/d conversion could be done with the apogee's for instance.And with motu 2408 you could hook on a couple of apogee rosetta's as well.

i'd get soundscape before I'd get paris.Soundscape sessions are %100 interchangable with pro tools, and its an all around great system.

But, pro tools still has all the cool plugs'and you pay too much for it, but at least you know theyre gonna stick by their product cxonsidering its their flagship.
I'd say if your going to get the re.d might as well wait till you can get pro tools. I say this because soundscape seems to be lacking the very best plug ins that wouldm justify buying that type of system.Besides pro tools I think digital performer is great, or nuendo even.

And systems usining vst format plug ins will be able yo use the tc works powercore wich is much cheaper then souindcape, or digidersigns farm cards
 
My two bits on the Digital vs Analog mixer debate:

I think which one is right for you depends on what sort of work you are doing. Traditionally digital mixers have been deficiant in analog inputs. My studio was built to accomidate my (rock) band plus similar projects I wanted to do. To allow for microphone recording of a drum kit and loud amps I needed lots of mic inputs. And while digital mixers are quieter, a decent analog mixer (I bought an Alesis Studio 32) was more than quiet enough for me. Plus my studio is a non-money producer (at least up till now) so I have to keep my $$$ expenditures in line.

Now if I were a composer doing a lot of commercials or sound tracks, writing everything and playing it back through a stack of MIDI sequencers and keyboards, I would have spent the extra $$$ and gone digital everything, because that would make more sense.

If you are putting together a small studio-for-hire I imagine most people would start with an analog board and then go digital once they could afford it.

Back in the day when I used to sell computers, people would ask me "what computer should I buy?". I used to explain to them that asking that question first is backwards from how you should think. You should ask yourself -

1) What jobs/tasks do I want to do?
2) What software does these things I have decided?
3) What hardware best runs the software I have picked out?

Picking studio gear is exactly the same way, decide on your goals first and then your purchasing decisions will be easy.
 
Guelenn.. the TMD-1000 actually has 8 pres.. only 4 with Phantom power and Balanced ins. But you can expand it once you get the money. It IS only 20-bit though. on the converter side. (24-bit outs) There is a Large 20-bit console I got to work with for a while called a TMD-8000. It was GREAT. Its discontinued, but still availiable some places.

IMO, I get a better sound using 20-bit converters straight off my mics than sending a crappy mickie-ized sound to 24-bit converters.

And the BEAUTY... when you're famous, you can get a TMD-4000 or a d8 or something hype like that, use your mediocre mixer for headphones..(or sell it), and still hook up Rosettas. Your MOTU will Never have a chance to be better. or bigger.

xoox
 
tascam has a new digital mixer coming out. I just saw the preview in the december EQ mag. 24/96, 24 channel, 8 bus with the usual expendability options. The suggested retail price is $2,999. Check it out at http://www.tascam.com
 
The tascam td-d 1000 is supposedly a very poor design. I have heard numerous complaints about its interface and I assume that is why its so cheap(and discontinued).

Perhaps instaed of a motu 2408 you should check out one of RME's soundcards. They will compare favorably with an apogee converter, but at a much lower price.

As far as the apogee quality a/d/a at a lower price rme is the clear winner.I'd say their hardware is great.I'd think youd get a better sound with that then a 2408(or a digiedesign inmterface, or an ech or midiman)-but apogee;s are expensive for a reason, theyre the best.

So, you need to decide what software you want to use,
then that will lead you towards what hardware

Again I'd say you probably wont want a mixer if your gonna use good pre amps anyways, then youd want a control surface.
 
i honestly think it's only got 4 pre's. i checked it. but maybe i missed something. But the comparance you make is pretty limp; when i get rich i can buy the d8b and can sell the old...
when i get rich i get protools (the 1 billion dollar version) and sell (or brun , i'm rich remeber) the old.

Both options can be 'upgraded' in your way: you just buy better stuff.

and i believe that the 20-bit easily competes with the 24 bit on soundcards.

BTW i made an offer on a promix01 about $600... do you think that would cut it? the promix not the 600,-...;)

greetz guhlenn
 
Your telling me that the tascams a/d/a compare to apogee's or rme's?.....

thats rediculous
 
Im saying you can sell old mixers and get new ones. Its much harder to sell old soundcards and get new ones. Mixers are also compatible with other things... like a da-88, for instance.. suddenly I have a mobile solution as well as a home deal. Same interface... take the box home, dump the tracks via TDIF, and there you go. In 2 years when apogees are 50 cents apeice, I can get a whole mixer full of them, wheras if I bought a MOTU now, Id be stuck with it.

gueleenn...There's 4 xlr ins on th1000, and 4 unbalanced ins.. and theres PHANTOM POWER on the XLR ins only. all the channels can handle a dynamic mic (with el converter, of course) and have trim pots. And before you guys are like "whoa... radioshack-style conversions..." just know. Ive done it. It doent sound bad. in fact, I tested the difference extensively, and it was miniscule. Until youve tried it, keep yer trap shut, eh..!;)

oh, and the 1000 is a great mixer. It sounds good and has a great layout. Its discontinued because it wasnt selling very well @ $1200.00... because its only 20-bit, and doesnt have flying faders(both feature , imo, are overrated) Sound quality-wise, it outperforms any Mackie or Berimger Ive ever heard (and Ive had them both) I havent done head to heads with other mixers, so I cant say, but it definately is holding me over till I get my 8000. and I wont even need to get a new soundcard!

xoxo
 
what really amuses me is when guys get really nice converters and send their shit thru a crappy board. Then you get really well-converted junk. Id rather use a decent converter, and leave out the sound-killing stages.

to my ears... a pair of c1000s as overheads thru a tmd1000 straight to HD is _totally_(well, 99%) transparent. I play it back and I think someones there playing. Its a rediculously good sound.

xoxo
 
Get an rme soundcard, or get pro tools.
or get both.
seriously though rme is the same echelon of quality as apogee and its pricing is a bit more reasonable.
 
well camn,

i believe you. still think your comparison is limping though ;). was thinking bout the digiotal mixers cuz they offer 105 db headroom at 20 bit, while a aardvark or such has the same headroom at 24bit but the mixer useally brings it down to 80-90... don't know too much about it but i compared and the mixer is usually the weak link... and as i'm thinking about software mixing anyway...

there still expensive though...

hey camn, got anything you recorded that i can listen too?

thanks guhlenn
 
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