Mabye not the right forum but.......

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Chris Jahn

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After some private lessons from a pro engineer, a continueing internship, tons of reading, this web site, and countless hours of experimenting with my own band, i feel pretty confident to put myself out there to offer my services in the demo recording department. Mabye not the next Capitol records singed concept album by some terible Fuse network band, but definetly some local band demos.

So my question, whats a good rate to start out with? One that I wont cheat myself with but also one that wont be to over the top for jsut getting started.

I live in new york city, so studio rates are higher on average of course, but does anyone have a ballpark for first time home studio work, with little credibility.

And should i do this hourly, by the song, by the day, and should i have a seperate fee for mixing and tracking?
 
You could call up a few studios posing as a prospective client and see what they are charging.
 
very true, but what percentage bellow the average pro studio should a home studio charge?
 
I'm not sure there would really be a formula. Maybe half?

Basically, it boils down to one question: what are people willing to pay you for your services? There are ways to do this that aren't hourly, as well. You can do a day rate, or a project rate. It doesn't have to be an hourly rate.
 
What are people willing to pay? That's the question. I don't think you can charge what a pro room charges but you don't have to low-ball yourself either. Maybe $50 per hour? Be careful charging by the project because clients will work the project to death and you'll end up making $4.17 per hour. Maybe ask some of the bands that you've recorded in the past what they would be willing to pay. Obviously this will vary greatly from market to market. Good luck!
 
I think a good base line would be to call around and put together an estimate on what it costs, on a per-hour basis, for rehearsal space in your area.

You have to figure that if your work utterly sucks (a very distinct likelihood as a beginner -- don't kid yourself) ... then at the very least, the band is getting valuable rehearsal time in what I'm assuming is a halfway decent space to rehearse in (and if it's not, then you need to reconsider this gig). If your space is warm, sheltered, and doesn't have rats, etc. and people can plug in and play loud ... then it's valueable for that alone.

From there, you should add at least whatever minimum wage is on top of that -- for your services as an engineer.

If you have to go any lower than that, then what it tells you is that ... the economic laws of supply and demand have ruled the home studio gig out as a viable money-making option for you. If a rehearsal space is able to generate more dough just for being there and providing space ... and the guy at the taco bell drive-through is making a higher living wage than you, then I'm afraid reality is trying to tell you something in a not-so-subtle way.

But to some it up, that should be your absolute lowest point to start from; competitive hourly cost versus comparable rehearsal space, plus non third-world sweatshop living wage.

.
 
I like the rehearsal space idea, but isn't rehearsal space often something like $10 an hour? Add minimum wage to that and you get under $20 an hour. If you price too low, then you create the impression of low value.

I'm thinking somewhere between $25-50 an hour, with maybe a discount for a day buyout.
 
SonicAlbert said:
I'm thinking somewhere between $25-50 an hour, with maybe a discount for a day buyout.
Click to expand...

You make a good point. However, if you're just starting out, I would think 50 bucks an hour would seem way too high. Twenty-five might be fair, depending on the cost of living in your geographic area, etc.

The whole audio racket is so experience-dependent. People who have been doing it longer just tend to produce a better product, and they can do it quicker and more reliably. If the guy at the taco bell can do a better job making a taco than you can do on a recording, then I don't know if it's justified to charge more for your labor than he does.

Just one way of looking at it.
 
Chess is right that it's very experience-dependant. On top of that, it's also market-dependant. IMHO such a decision can't be made without looking at the market you're going into; i.e. what your competition costs and what they offer. You gotta look at it from the POV of the client. They are going to ask themselves, "OK, why do I want to go to Chris? Is it just because I know him? Is it because he's a nice guy? Is it because he is cheaper than the compeition? Is it because he costs more but offers more?" etc.

You gotta define your target client first. Then you can look at the competition for that target and how they are marketing and pricing themselves. Then you gotta figure out a)if you can compete, and b)if so, how? How are you going to position yourself and sell yourself?. Then, and only then, can you come up with a rate for your service that's going to work.

And, frankly, I think you gotta put a value on your own time and come up with at least a little bit of a business plan. Regardless of your level of success, and regardless of how much of a hobby this is to you versus a serious business, sooner than you think costs are going to arise. Not even counting income tax (if you make enough to qualify), before you know it your going to need to perform some unplanned equipment maintenance (e.g. one of your firepods gets some noisy pots on it, the dog eats your LDC when your not looking, you're coming home from a live gig and your car and your gear gets broadsided by a drunk groupie coming out of the parking lot, etc.) Or you discover you could get that band that you'd love to hook up with because they are riding a rising star, but they won't even look twice at you unless you have that killer mic or mixer that would hook them.

The point is, if you don't have the liquidity when the dog eats your gear or that band comes knocking, you could find yourself shuttering up your studio (at least temporarily) at the drop of a hat. I've seen it happen to the best of folks. And it could happen two years from now or it could happen tomorrow. You really should think about that and make sure you are in a position to be able to charge enough and get enough business to pay for more than just your pizza and beer expenses, even if you do consider it just a "paying hobby." Make enough to save some for that day when fate deals a blow to your hobby gear and forces you to take up sewing instead.

Or is that too pretentious for a jackass like me to advise, Chris? ;) :D

G.
 
My two cents -

If you have to ask, you're not ready.

edit - I wasn't going to say anything about your MANY posts asking very Newbie questions, but I gotta quote this (from one of your posts) -

"long detail oriented material loses me very quickly"

That is what mixing is all about IMHO. Long, detailed oriented material. The devil is in the details, as they say.
 
wow, that was just plain rude, if your gonna quote someone put it in context, because that quote has to do with reading (non fiction tech material) but in application, with hands on i can go all night, and mixing is exactly the kind of activity that people with true ADD are good at, its about certain types of focus and that happens to be the right kind, do people in the forum just make low blows to knock people down? hideing behind there computers, what the hell do you know, you know nothing cuz you dont know me. which makes you a dick for saying what you said!!
 
I think you took that a little too literally.

I wasn't trying to put you down in any way, but the points add up to the conclusion I drew in my initial response. You certainly have not given the impression (based on your MANY posts), that you are anywhere near ready to charge people anything IMHO.

The ability to focus on minute details is incredibly important though - and is something I struggle with myself.

And, for the record, I am not hiding behind my computer. I have all my info listed in my sig. Furthermore, I would appreciate if you didn't call me a dick, I am more of an asshole. :D


Best of luck to you.
 
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Chris Jahn said:
After some private lessons from a pro engineer, a continueing internship, tons of reading, this web site, and countless hours of experimenting with my own band, i feel pretty confident to put myself out there to offer my services in the demo recording department. Mabye not the next Capitol records singed concept album by some terible Fuse network band, but definetly some local band demos.

So my question, whats a good rate to start out with? One that I wont cheat myself with but also one that wont be to over the top for jsut getting started.

I live in new york city, so studio rates are higher on average of course, but does anyone have a ballpark for first time home studio work, with little credibility.

And should i do this hourly, by the song, by the day, and should i have a seperate fee for mixing and tracking?
Click to expand...


Let me hear one of your best recordings youve done.

With all the novice like questions youve been asking on the forum (which is fine...learn away thats good) i dont get how you think you could charge for your work yet at all.

Again let me hear sample.

Id at least tell you if its worth money or not.
 
xfinsterx said:
Let me hear one of your best recordings youve done.

With all the novice like questions youve been asking on the forum (which is fine...learn away thats good) i dont get how you think you could charge for your work yet at all.

Again let me hear sample.

Id at least tell you if its worth money or not.
Click to expand...

Does this offer extend to any other forum members? I've asked this question here before and didn't get a response.
 
BRIEFCASEMANX said:
Does this offer extend to any other forum members? I've asked this question here before and didn't get a response.
Click to expand...

Ive heard you work before...(recent stuff)

It sounded well enough.

If i were an artist that wanted YOU to record ME?

Id offer you 50 a song.
 
Ok this feels risky, but i do have two songs up on a myspace page, i think they are awful sounding due to the streaming MP3 format, both of these mixes sound MUCH better to me at home, either straight off the comp, or burned, and in the home stereo, car, etc... i was really reluctent to put them up cuz im getting better now (these were my FIRST two recordings with my currant set up) but unmastered mixes as mp3's show ALL the flaws to me and believe me they ARE flawed,

but who cares, im learnig, check them out (all the way through please) tell me how far off base i am.

www.myspace.com/tmdne
 
Chris Jahn said:
Ok this feels risky, but i do have two songs up on a myspace page, i think they are awful sounding due to the streaming MP3 format, both of these mixes sound MUCH better to me at home, either straight off the comp, or burned, and in the home stereo, car, etc... i was really reluctent to put them up cuz im getting better now (these were my FIRST two recordings with my currant set up) but unmastered mixes as mp3's show ALL the flaws to me and believe me they ARE flawed,

but who cares, im learnig, check them out (all the way through please) tell me how far off base i am.

www.myspace.com/tmdne
Click to expand...

10 bucks an hour in any city, for what i just heard.

Even better would be to get some bands under your belt for free.

Then by the time you charge youll have some needed exp.

Exp is all too important.

If you dont have it, youre nervous around clients, jittery sometimes, dont have a confident demeanor.....etc...etc.

There are too many reasons for you to wait.

Dont charge em just yet IMHO.
 
Ok, first off, the good. They aren't as bad as I was expecting. The bad news is, they sound like someone who is just starting out in homerecording IMHO. I wouldn't pay to get a recording of that quality. Also, you need to realize, that when you record yourself, it's a lot easier to get to where you are trying to go. When working with other people, they may not do things the way you want. It's a fine line trying to tell someone that they need to do something, when they want to do it their way. Tough indeed.

Anyway, you are off to a good start. Let's hear what everyone else says. This was just my opinion, and who the heck am I anyway?!?!??

edit - dammit Chris posted while I was replying. Looks like he basically said the same thing........
 
Damn, that bad huh, some feedback would be nice, just to get an idea of were to start working, and like i said that was the very first thing i EVER did with logic and "real" mic setups etc.....but someithing to work on, an aproach would be nice.
 
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