M
mcolling
New member
M-S in in theory a very elegant technique. Is it ever used for drums? Everyone seems to use X-Y or two separate mics for stereo OHs, but wouldn't M-S be good also?
Light said:I have used MS as both overheads and as an out in front of the kit stereo pair. Works fine. It is certainly a very elegant solution, but the primary legitimate reasons to use MS are;
1) (And this is the most important one) it has perfect compatibility with mono playback. In mono, the sides mic simply disappears, and you are left with just the mid mic. This is very important if your work will be heard in a mono format, such as AM radio. The thing is, there are far fewer mono formats these days, so I don't find this to be an issue for myself.
2) MS allows you to adjust the "width" of your stereo image during mixdown. The louder the mid mic, the narrower the image. This only works, of course, if you either record all three tracks, or it you record the raw mic output, and then "decode" it on mix down. Either way, I don't really like it for this purpose anyway, simply because MS NEVER gives you a stereo image I like.
MS only gives you half the locating image, volume. Our brains interpret sound location (stereo) information on the basis of two things, volume and time. MS and XY only give you volume information, and the VAST majority of how we hear location is based on TIME. I have done posts on here about something called delay panning, also called the Haas Effect. With delay panning, you can distinguish hundreds of time more stereo positions than with level panning. It is similar with stereo micing. You can get a much wider and more complex (and to my mind pleasing) stereo image by using even just an ORTF than you ever could with XY or MS. And Spaced Pairs are even better. My personal favorite is actually the Decca Tree. I have used that on jazz drummers, and both I and they have always been ecstatic with the results. Just that, and MAYBE a kick mic, and it just sounds like THIER drum kit. Try doing that with close micing. It will fail every time.
To be honest, I think that most of the times people use MS, it is NOT because of the sound, or the mono compatibility, or the width adjustment. Most of the time people use MS BECAUSE it is an elegant solution, which is to say, they use it to show off that they know how. That is NEVER a good excuse to do something. At least, not if you main concern is the final product.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
PapillonIrl said:Do you use three of the same mics in omni, or mix'n'match a bit ?
PapillonIrl said:Do you find you need a very good and/or largish room to get good results ?
PapillonIrl said:Do you have rough starting mic positions for the tree?
PapillonIrl said:I assume you use 3, not five mics ?
What kind of heights are the mics ?
Do you generally set up the L/R mics the same height as the centre one ?
How long is one side of the triangle (I take it it's equilateral )?
Do you get any problems with comb-filtering ?
Light ...I also have found for the last few years that I don't really like stereo drums said:Just re-read that... Interesting.
Too tired now to come up with a clever comment... but thank you for the food for thought.
G'night.