Toki987
Rock Steady
Chris Fallen said:
Thanks, a good read.
Thanks, a good read.
B
bleyrad
New member
i do have a full rock band mix done entirely with a delta 44.
these guys telling you what comes in is what comes out, are totally right though. it's just a recording medium. your skill as a recording engineer will determine the output far more than the soundcard.
i now have a MOTU 1224, which is supposedly significantly better-sounding than the Delta, yet I hear no huge discernable difference between the two, even after doing dozens and dozens of mixes on both. it is certainly a more flexible soundcard with more inputs and such, but quality? soundcards are soundcards (please note this does not necessarily apply to uber-high-end converters like Mytek... I haven't heard them myself so I can't comment, but for $7000... they darn well should sound better.)
just record good tones to begin with, and then do a good job on the mixdown, and stop worrying about soundcards
these guys telling you what comes in is what comes out, are totally right though. it's just a recording medium. your skill as a recording engineer will determine the output far more than the soundcard.
i now have a MOTU 1224, which is supposedly significantly better-sounding than the Delta, yet I hear no huge discernable difference between the two, even after doing dozens and dozens of mixes on both. it is certainly a more flexible soundcard with more inputs and such, but quality? soundcards are soundcards (please note this does not necessarily apply to uber-high-end converters like Mytek... I haven't heard them myself so I can't comment, but for $7000... they darn well should sound better.)
just record good tones to begin with, and then do a good job on the mixdown, and stop worrying about soundcards
S
steve15
New member
Bleyrad,
Thanks for sharing that tune. It really sounds good. How exactly did you track each instrument when you did that recording? And also what microphones did you use for each instrument? Thanks.
Thanks for sharing that tune. It really sounds good. How exactly did you track each instrument when you did that recording? And also what microphones did you use for each instrument? Thanks.
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bleyrad
New member
Recording was done in my living room using a Mackie 1604VLZ (not pro) for its preamps.
Kick ATM25, Snare SM57, Overheads C1000s (rented... never use them again)
Bass was DI.
Guitars were mic'd, one with a 57, the other with a NT1000 (rented)
Vocals were an NT1000.
Overall I was not impressed with the NT1000. It had a more expensive-sounding high end than my NT1 but was also significantly thinner sounding. Won't ever use that mic again. If I get a higher-end vocal mic, it likely won't be a Rode.
Kick ATM25, Snare SM57, Overheads C1000s (rented... never use them again)
Bass was DI.
Guitars were mic'd, one with a 57, the other with a NT1000 (rented)
Vocals were an NT1000.
Overall I was not impressed with the NT1000. It had a more expensive-sounding high end than my NT1 but was also significantly thinner sounding. Won't ever use that mic again. If I get a higher-end vocal mic, it likely won't be a Rode.
S
steve15
New member
Thanks. But how did you track each instrument so that everything was in correct timing, etc. Or did you just record everything live in one take?
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bleyrad
New member
nope, we did one instrument at a time.
Pretty standard procedure:
1: Establish tempo.
2: Set click-track in audio software to correct tempo.
3: Record scratch tracks (rough bass, guitar, and vocals) to the metronome for timing purposes.
4: Record full drum tracks, having the drummer monitor both the click track and the scratch tracks.
5: Start layering other instruments, starting with bass (and removing scratch tracks when appropriate.)
Pretty standard procedure:
1: Establish tempo.
2: Set click-track in audio software to correct tempo.
3: Record scratch tracks (rough bass, guitar, and vocals) to the metronome for timing purposes.
4: Record full drum tracks, having the drummer monitor both the click track and the scratch tracks.
5: Start layering other instruments, starting with bass (and removing scratch tracks when appropriate.)
S
steve15
New member
Ok. What recording software did you use?
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bleyrad
New member
Nuendo for tracking, Ultrafunk plugins, TC Timeworks Reverb, Samplitude for pseudo-mastering.
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steve15
New member
Do you any less expensive recording software that I could use, that would still produce awesome results?
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bleyrad
New member
really, you can use anything.
Sonar is popular around here, and a good choice.
You couldn't go wrong with Samplitude as your main tracking program either.
At the extreme low-end, even N-Track Studio can probably get just as good an end-product with enough effort.
Sonar is popular around here, and a good choice.
You couldn't go wrong with Samplitude as your main tracking program either.
At the extreme low-end, even N-Track Studio can probably get just as good an end-product with enough effort.
S
steve15
New member
Ok thanks for your help. So do you think for my rock band, a Delta 44 will be able to produce really awesome quality recordings even though it only can record 4 tracks at one time?
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bleyrad
New member
I really have no idea.
This is up to the rock band, your gear, and most of all, the skill of the person doing the recording.
To repeat what I and everyone else here has been saying over and over: The Delta is perfectly capable, if you know what you're doing.
If you DON'T know what you're doing, even Myteks aren't going to help you out at all. And untrained ears probably wouldn't hear the difference anyway.
Just go make some music! Far fewer people than you'd think actually care about the sound quality of your recording. They just want to hear your music (at least, I hope for your sake they do.)
This is up to the rock band, your gear, and most of all, the skill of the person doing the recording.
To repeat what I and everyone else here has been saying over and over: The Delta is perfectly capable, if you know what you're doing.
If you DON'T know what you're doing, even Myteks aren't going to help you out at all. And untrained ears probably wouldn't hear the difference anyway.
Just go make some music! Far fewer people than you'd think actually care about the sound quality of your recording. They just want to hear your music (at least, I hope for your sake they do.)
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steve15
New member
Anyone else got some feedback on how the Delta 44 works with recording a band?
Chris Tondreau
Member
The Delta cards in general are very, very good. I had the 44 and was very pleased. I've moved up to the 1010 and don't feel like I'm lacking whatsoever.
As I understand it, the 44 and 66 sound the same. The 1010 sounds somewhat better, as the conversion is done by hardware devices, rather than the codecs used in the 44/66 cards. Don't know how true it is, but I've heard that the Dixie Chicks used a 1010 on their album.
That all said, your recordings will ultimately be as good as your weakest link. We're talking Are the drums tuned? Does the singer know the words? Are you using a DJ mixer to feed your signals into your sound card? Are you using the mic that came with your computer? Are you recording into Windows Sound Recorder? Are you using the headphones that came with your Walkman to mix and monitor? Do you know what kind of mic to use and where to put it? These questions are only sort of sarcastic in that any of these things will over-ride any benefit of having the best soundcard in the world.
Roughly, the order of importance is something like this (in order of what has to sound good in order to get a good recording). Yes, this ordering will probably be debated.
1. Source - a great recording of crap is still crap in the end. A hack recording of a great sound will still sound okay.
2. Mic - what kind and where to put it - there are so many "personalities" of mics, and different tools for different jobs, that the right choice vs the wrong choice can really make a massive difference to the end product.
3. Preamp(s) - a half-okay pre will make you sound like you. A great pre will make you sound great.
everything else....
The Beatles were recorded to four-track analog, as was Beck's first album with Loser. Those recordings are great because they had #1-3 in place.
Chris
As I understand it, the 44 and 66 sound the same. The 1010 sounds somewhat better, as the conversion is done by hardware devices, rather than the codecs used in the 44/66 cards. Don't know how true it is, but I've heard that the Dixie Chicks used a 1010 on their album.
That all said, your recordings will ultimately be as good as your weakest link. We're talking Are the drums tuned? Does the singer know the words? Are you using a DJ mixer to feed your signals into your sound card? Are you using the mic that came with your computer? Are you recording into Windows Sound Recorder? Are you using the headphones that came with your Walkman to mix and monitor? Do you know what kind of mic to use and where to put it? These questions are only sort of sarcastic in that any of these things will over-ride any benefit of having the best soundcard in the world.
Roughly, the order of importance is something like this (in order of what has to sound good in order to get a good recording). Yes, this ordering will probably be debated.
1. Source - a great recording of crap is still crap in the end. A hack recording of a great sound will still sound okay.
2. Mic - what kind and where to put it - there are so many "personalities" of mics, and different tools for different jobs, that the right choice vs the wrong choice can really make a massive difference to the end product.
3. Preamp(s) - a half-okay pre will make you sound like you. A great pre will make you sound great.
everything else....
The Beatles were recorded to four-track analog, as was Beck's first album with Loser. Those recordings are great because they had #1-3 in place.
Chris
S
shackrock
New member
maybe you missed my last post....
I recorded it all seperate as well. Get a nice preamp, and some decent mics - and that'll do the trick.
Also, NTRACK is fine for recording. I have used sonic foundry audio programs (acid, etc.), cubase, samplitude, and ntrack. When it all came down to it - ntrack could do all the same things, just a lot easier. If i REALLY need something specific to another program, I can still track in that program. But all of my major songs and mixes are done through ntrack - with loads of other plugins at my grasp of course. So don't be discouraged with ntrack. It's cheap and great...just make sure you have a stable system....best would be a computer dedicated to audio recordings.
so yeah, get ntrack, and use your other 200-300 bucks on a mics/pres.
scott
I recorded it all seperate as well. Get a nice preamp, and some decent mics - and that'll do the trick.
Also, NTRACK is fine for recording. I have used sonic foundry audio programs (acid, etc.), cubase, samplitude, and ntrack. When it all came down to it - ntrack could do all the same things, just a lot easier. If i REALLY need something specific to another program, I can still track in that program. But all of my major songs and mixes are done through ntrack - with loads of other plugins at my grasp of course. So don't be discouraged with ntrack. It's cheap and great...just make sure you have a stable system....best would be a computer dedicated to audio recordings.
so yeah, get ntrack, and use your other 200-300 bucks on a mics/pres.
scott
S
steve15
New member
Thanks. What pre-amps and mics did you use for each instrument in that recording?
S
shackrock
New member
pre amps:
i have a dmp2 (earlier model of dmp3, basically the same sound...but you definately need a mic pad for this! ha.).
also I have a shitty berhinger mx802a, it sounds like poop don't get one. ha.
mics:
C1
SM57 (2)
SM58 (2)
mxl 603s (2)
that's basically it.
i have a dmp2 (earlier model of dmp3, basically the same sound...but you definately need a mic pad for this! ha.).
also I have a shitty berhinger mx802a, it sounds like poop don't get one. ha.
mics:
C1
SM57 (2)
SM58 (2)
mxl 603s (2)
that's basically it.
F
free_d20
New member
Me and my band used to record on a delta 44 and apparently what everyone in this thread, including myself, is trying to say to you steve is that it is MORE THAN OK!!! at least for your purposes. we are currently in a better recording situation (LYNX-WAHTEVER is nothing compared to the real pro-tools combination of hardware!). anyways i believe that it wont compare to our actual recording situation, but by experience i can say the delta ROCKS!! heres a pic in case you doubt my critique:
