lve performace sound problems

[beatlefreak]

I amrunning the sound for a church right now to try to help them get it set up right. We have run into sme problems when it comes to the overall mix of things. There is constant feedback in the monors and if they aren't feeing back then they aren't being heard We also run into the problem of there being no true lead vocal without there being mor clpping. I don' think tat is the equpment even though the equipment could be part of it I thnk it has more to do with the people using the equipment on stage but was wondering if any oe has any suggestions on how to cu back on the feedback without losng power.

The equipment that it is all running through is a makie 32 channel board with two mac amps, one running 80 watts and one runing 1400 watts. the 800 watt is running four monitor split between two channels. the 1400 watt one isrunning the mains. there is four backup mic's and one lead, htere is also a guitar amp mic'ed with a sm57. There is also anopther guitar amp that runs through a mic plug straight into the system. there is also a bass amp that is direct boxed into the system. Any sugestions on how to fix the feedback probm would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[sonusman]

I used to run sound at a large church a few years ago, so I can relate to a few of these problems.

I will start out by saying that you would need to include a very detailed list of gear, possibly some drawings of the room and placement of speakers and microphones in the room for anybody to successfully give much help.

I will tell you what I see as the truth about 95% of church sound system problems:

1 - Generally, the room itself contributes heavily to sound system problems. Poor acoustical design being the main culprit. Often, church's will "skimp" on acoustical treatments that would make a VERY big difference in how it sounds in the room.

2 - Church's tend to be sold gear that is not at the high caliber it needs to be to satisfy most involved with using it. Again, the gear choice was probably "budget driven", and whoever sold the gear to them had to do the best with the budget given them, rather than having a big say in what it is going to take to deliver quality sound in the room. This coupled with 1 above makes for a very frustating experience. I always say, "buy cheap, buy twice", and many church's unfortuneately don't talk to a guy like me before they do their sound system budget, and thus, they wind up having problems with the gear they have.

3 - Often, the church just plain wants to do things that are a nightmare for even the most experienced live sound engineer. Lavalier mic's are great, but are nightmare's to use in reverberant rooms, yet many church's want to use them for the pastor to talk though so he doesn't have to stay at a podium to deliver his messages. I can list hundreds of other hairbrain things that are done in church services that dont' bode well with delivering quality sound to the whole room, but that would be a rather long paragraph!!! Combined with 1 and 2 above, the way they want to do things makes it almost impossible to offer quality sound.

If you are not a VERY experienced live sound engineer, it would benefit the church a lot to seek out somebody that IS, and to hire them to consult, and to plan on spending some money to solve the various problems they are probably having. No offense, but it doesn't sound like you have anywhere near the experience level in live sound to either do it yourself, nor advise the church on solutions to the problems. There are reputable companies out their that deal with church sound as a specialty. They are not cheap because the problems are generally complex.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but better that you get it straight right away from somebody that has "been there, done that" a few times in church environments.

Feel free to email me at sonusman@hotmail.com to talk of the possibility of me being hired to consult on this situation, or maybe I can help you find a company that can help you that is close to you.

Good luck.

Ed

 

[gospel]

I sing in a gospel group (like you couldn't tell from my name?). We sing in approx. 60-80 churchs a year. You didn't mention that there was an equalizer in your equipment list. If you don't have one you should get one. You probably need at least a single 31 band equalizer. If you do have an equalizer get the system to start the feedback then start moving the eq faders down one at a time until the feedback stops. When it stops the fader that you lowered is the frequency where your feedback is located. Leave that fader down and adjust the others accordingly for sound quality. Sometimes it is more than one frequency. Most of the time on our system, according to how the acoustics are in a church, it is only one frequency that has feedback.
I noticed in Musician's friend a feedback destoyer/parametric eq for approx. $150. This might be a good way to go, but I've never used one.
I don't know what kind of mics you have, but another way to cut down on the possibility of feedback is to use a mic that has a tight polar pattern (supercardiod) such as a Shure beta 58.

 

[muttley]

How are the mic's positioned in relation to the stage monitors?
And Ditto on what Sonusman sayth. What they need to do is make it a sin for churchs to buy cheap equipment!!


da MUTT

 

[beatlefreak]

We have an e.q. but it is not hooked up right now. That sounds like a good idea though I'll have to give it a shot thanks.

We have tried every position for the mic's the only one that diesn't give at least some problem is if there is no monitors at all. But then they can't hear. so??????

Any thing else I could possibly try.

Thanks

 

[gospel]

The other guys gave great advice that you can look to in the future. For now hook that eq up and follow the steps I told you and I will almost 100% guarantee your days of feed back will be over.

By the way sonusman is right on target with what he said about churchs and equipment. A lot of churchs that I have been involved in with equipment either got sold sorry equipment for a high price or were sold good equipment at an inflated price. In one instance the soundman that they bought equipment from and paid to install it doubled the price on every piece of equipment. He charged them $225 each for SM58 mics. I hope he sleeps well at night. I couldn't.