Lucid DA converters

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tubedude

tubedude

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Hey sjoko,
I was under the impression that those good Lucid converters would cost me a fortune, but I managed to find the AD2496, which is a 2 channel converter, for about $600 locally. THAT I can deal with.
Heres my question, since you seem to know your digital well... what method are you using to get IN to the computer from the converter? I have an S/PDIF input on my Aardvark sound card, but I've heard (from a fairly reliable source) that S/PDIF is a 16 bit format. So even if I convert signal coming into the Lucid at 24 bit, it'll kick it down to 16 bit for the S/PDIF. Know anything about this? I think I also read something about it at digido.com.
I will seriously consider buying a new converter and maybe even a better grade preamp JUST for vocals, and for single tracked instruments, and use my Aard inputs for the drums (maybe use the Lucid for snare or something). If this would truly make a noticable difference, and you beleive it wholeheartedly, then I guess I beleive it too. Let me know.... :)
 
Hey there,
I presume you are taliking about the A/D? Not the D/A?

Don't worry about your bit rate, all three formats, AES3, S/PDIF and TOSLINK put out 24 bit (unless you switch it to 16, of cause). Also, its a 2 channel converter, so you can record both your snare and kick through it.

I go into the computer through an ADAT bridge, so I'm using TOSLINK, one small plastic wire per 8 channels.

You can check out the spec etc on www.lucidaudio.com I think there are some revieuws there as well.
 
http://www.proaudioreview.com/par/december00/Swissonic-Web.shtml

With the proper mode enabled, the Swissonic converters generate truly remarkable sound. Their sound is both detailed and smooth, with a sense of depth you just don’t get from standard recordings — the word "effortless" comes to mind when listening to the Swissonic converters. These units have numbers to back up what one hears, such as 118 dB S/N ratio and dynamic range specs for the AD96 (112 dB for the DA96).



http://www.proaudioreview.com/par/december99/LucidTech-Web.shtml



the reviewer seems to think that this lucid only performs excellently at 96khz sample rates.

I wonder how this compares to the swissonic da2496, which got rave reviews here:

http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/files/4DFFC747843E8AF186256898005F05DE


If I can really get that quality, then I better start saving the $900 or so it takes.
 
:)

I'm sure the smile that would come every time I recorded something that clean sounding would be worth whatever money it costed ;)
 
I feel you tubedude. I don't think I will smile when I get that quality though. I think I will weep for joy.

:)

peace
 
Some reviews are just a trip ------ I read the Lucid review on the page you mentioned Cyan - Which explains one thing, some guys are so overwhelmend with getting "high quality" that they forget some basics (I'm refering to his recording set-up which, if it is exactly the way he describes it, can never work properly without dropping a significant number of bits) in which case - if somebody records at a high bit rate and claims to be able to hear a difference in an 88.2 and a 96 bit signal (??), how come they do not hear the error they have made in their recording chain? (I am talking about the length of TOSLINK and AES used)
Plus - it states he recorded into Cubase VST 24 version 4.1. Ehhhhhh am I missing something here? Is this someone totally completely confused? He is taking an analogue signal, keeps the converters close to the analogue source, which is a good idea, then runs digital by means of AES (AES only does up to 48 , you need AES2 for 96) and fiber optics over a distance to long for a clean digital signal in both AES AND optical, at 24/88.2 into a system which only went up to 24/48, at least until the next version was released.......
Eh........ sorry matie - it don't work
Why do they let people like that do reviews????

There are some other lovely quotes in it :
"The Lucid units’ sound at 88.2 and 96 kHz is more open and relaxed, compared to their sound at 44.1 and 48 kHz. This is what I found with the Apogee unit when I reviewed it (PAR, 9/99, p. 22)."
Hallo!! Dumass!! Of cause! You are comparing a higher to a lower quality DUH!! Oh Chineke!!!!
Its a bit like saying " we tested a Ferrari against a VW, and the Ferrari was faster".

I went and listened to a Swissonic this afternoon - no match for the Lucid's, at least to my ears
 
sjoko,

thankyou, thankyou. For listening to the swissonic and comparing it to lucid.

The reason is that I did some more searching earlier, and found that ted fletcher loves this same($750) lucid. He actually says that he prefers the sound of the lucid to the apogee.

Of course, this put a lot of noise in my head as to which converter to choose, but you have cleared up any questions, and I believe that I am going to get the Lucid. NOt only does it cost $250 less than the swissonic, I have heard the lucid and I want that sound.

Did you track that demo at 44.1?

peace


ps. I hope that you have not bought the swissonic yet based on my links. I do think that you should get the lucid.

haha. What will happen when we get dedicated converters? When we rave about them on this board about the sound improvement and all, I can just see everybody jumping on the wagon(which is a great thing) and the next big hit will be dedicated converters.
Mind blowing.
 
No, to be honest I have never ever tracked anything at either 16 bit, or 44.2, Just can't stands the CD sandpaper sound quality. I always track everything at 24/48 as standard, and look forward to the moment I can go 24/96 full time, and live happily ever after.
Don't worry about your investment, I honestly would never recommend for anyone to buy anything if there was a better choice. As far as the Lucid's go, the next, slightly better, alternative costs over 30.000, for a bank of 8 A/D's, so that would be 7.500 for 2 channels!

I agree with Ted, I have used the Apogees quite a bit, and I've never been 100% happy with them. The Lucid's just sound better, "easier" to the ears without loosing anything. I was a totally committed analogue person - until someone lend me a pair of Lucid's and I thought Hey! I can get the same good sound here as I'm getting analogue, but without the hassle and noise!
 
Well,

I'm all over those converters, for sure. My big thing is finding a dual channel preamp of highest quality, that I can afford, to go along with it. Keep it strong all the way through and it'll be strong in the end, ya know? I'm looking, though... any suggestions? Focusrite makes some small 1 channel preamps, and I would ASSUME they are very good. I need 2 channels.
I heard Neve had some small 1 and 2 channel preamps, and I'll bet they're great, but I can't find Neve stuff anywhere (do they have a web page? whats the story on Neve? ) and they're probably tons o' money.
My Aardvark has Spdif ins, which are fine with the Lucid. The Swissonics, however, were not compatible with my audio card due to NO spdif, so they lost automatically.
 
Well ..... "the story" on Neve pre's is that ........ they are good. You could pick up custom Neve 80 Series pre's for $1450.00 a pair with VU Meters, and be happy with them forever.
Or.... you can get a solid state AMEK 9098 pre with EQ designed by Rupert Neve for about $2250 for one channel.
Ane then of cause there is the Drawmer1960 for about $2299
And then the Millennia STT 1 - pretty much a monster, Origin single channel multi-function vacuum tube and solid state-analog processing system. 130 possible solid state and vacuum tube product combinations in one box. Great sounding and versatile direct recording. And then - there is Universal Audio's great pre for 3000 bucks.
And then finally, the last but not the least of my favorite ones, the Symetrix 528E pre amp, de-esser (sibilance removal), compressor/limiter, downward expander, parametric EQ, and voice symmetry alignment, and all that for about 750 bucks, which is really cool for vocals and about everything else.
And Stayne's pre's - hand build lovelies for about 2000 bucks.

Thats a list of my favorite ones, the ones I've used most.
My least favorite ones? Or should I say, the ones for deposit in the "overrated" and "not worth the money" bin in the store room next to the cleaning supply cupboard:
Focusrite - any of them, just don't like their sound.
Joe Meek - yuck
Manley - I'll never understand why anyone pays Mercedes money for a Hyundai, 300 bucks worth of components for thousands? naaaaaaaaaah
SSL 383's - pay 5000 bucks for something that does not sound really special? hell no!

for what its worth :)
 
Hmmm...

I still can't find a Neve website or anyone online that sells Neve stuff. Any ideas?
I was already checking out the Symetrix... also looking at the Symetrix 302 dual pre-amp...only $300 list... any word on it?
Also... you mentioned the Drawmer 1960 as being good... Drawmer also has the MX60 Front End for $600 which has the same preamp as the 1960.
Gonna do some more research on the Symetrix Dual, and I'll post any obvious differences.
Paul
 
Thanks... heres what I found on the...

Symetrix...
302 Dual Microphone Preamplifier
Input/Output
Input Type Low Z Balanced, Transformerless
Maximum Input Level +14dBV (with pad "In")
Maximum Output Level +24dBu Balanced, 10k Ohm load
+22dBu Balanced, 600 Ohm load
Input Impedance >3k Ohms
Output Impedance 300 Ohms Balanced, 150 Ohms Unbalanced
Performance Data
Clip Indicators red LEDs, fire 3dB below clipping
Frequency Response 20Hz to 20kHz, +0, -1dB
THD+Noise .007% (1kHz, 0dBu, 600 Ohms out)
.01% (1kHz, +22dBu, 600 Ohms out)
Signal to Noise Ratio 95dB (-50 dBV, 150 Ohms in)
EIN <-128dBu (150 Ohms source, 60dB gain, 22kHz bandwidth)
Phantom Power +48V
Minimum Gain 20dB
Maximum Gain 60dB
Connections
Input XLR
Output TRS jacks, Euroblock
Power In 7 pin DIN
Physical
Size (hwd) 1/2 rack unit
1.75 x 8.5 x 6.5 in., 4.445 x 21.59 x 15.875 cm.
Shipping Weight 4.6 lbs.
Electrical
Power Requirements 117V nominal, 95 to 130V AC, 50 to 60Hz, 10 watts
230V nominal, 165 to 255V AC, 50Hz, 10 watts

And on the 528e
SPECIFICATIONS
Specifications subject to change without notice.
Inputs
Controls and Switches Mic Gain, Phantom Power, Mic/Line
Mic and Line Input Connectors XLR-female (2)
Clip LED Fires at +17 dBu output level
from mic preamp or line input amplifier
Microphone Input Type Balanced Transformerless, Low Impedance
Phantom Power (DIN 45 596) +48V, nominal
Microphone Preamp Gain 22 to 60 dB (pad out), 7 to 45 dB(pad in)
Microphone Input Maximum Input Level -3 dBu (pad out)
Equivalent Input Noise (EIN) -126 dBV (150-Ohm source, 20 Hz to 20 kHz)
THD+Noise (Preamp only) 0.05% (2 kHz, 50 dB gain, +17 dBu output)
Mic Preamp CMRR > 60 dB (40 dB gain, 20 Hz to 20 kHz)
Line Input Type and Impedance 10 kilohm Transformerless, Balanced Bridging
Line Input Maximum Input Level +24 dBu
Line Input Nominal Input Level +4 dBu
Line Input CMRR > 50 dB (0 dBu, 20 Hz to 20 kHz)
Parametric Equalizer
Type Three-band Parametric Equalizer
Bands Low: 16 to 500 Hz, Mid: 160 to 6300 Hz
High: 680 Hz to 22 kHz
Peak/Dip Bandwidth 0.3 to 4 octaves, measured at maximum boost
Maximum Boost/Cut ±15 dB
Metering
Type Multi-segment LED bar graph
Output Level -20 to +3 VU (0 VU = +4 dBu), VU calibrated, peak responding
Gain Reduction Separate displays for: de-esser, downward expander, compressor
0 to 20 dB per display
Overall Performance Data
Frequency Response 20 Hz to 20 kHz (+0, -0.5 dB), EQ out
compressor out, downward expander out, de-esser out
THD+Noise 0.05%, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, +4 dBm output
Noise Floor Better than -89 dBu, 20-22 kHz.
Dynamic Range Processor
Type Interactive Comp/Limiter-Downward Expander
Comp/Limiter Ratio 1:1 to 10:1
Downward Expansion Ratio (max) 1:1.8
De-esser Type Program controlled high-cut filter, 12 dB/octave
Frequency Range 800 Hz to 8000 Hz
Threshold -30 to 0 dBu
Output Section Type Balanced, Transformerless
Maximum Output Level +24 dBm Balanced, +18 dBm Unbalanced
Connector XLR-male
Output Clip LED Fires 3 dB below clipping
Output Source Impedance 200 Ohms, balanced
Minimum Load Impedance 600 Ohms Balanced or Unbalanced
Voice Symmetry Switch Improves modulation symmetry of speech signals
Output Gain ±15 dB
Physical
Size (hwd) 1.72 x 19 x 7.25 inches, 4.37 x 48.26 x 18.415 centimeters
Weight 7.6 lbs (3.5kg) net, 10 lbs (4.6kg) shipping
Electrical
Power Requirements 117V nominal, 105 to 125V AC, 50 to 60 Hz, 15 watts maximum
230V nominal, 205 to 253V AC, 50 Hz, 15 watts maximum
 
"My Aardvark has Spdif ins, which are fine with the Lucid."

There's something really basic here I'm not getting. If you get a dedicated converter, what's the point of running it through a standard soundcard? Don't you run the converter straight to your recorder?
 
I record into the computer, and the spdif would be my connection between the 2. My soundcard has coverters that are pretty decent, but if I want to use better converters, I can use the spdif inputs for a digital in, rather than the mic pre's on my soundcard to input analog and THEN convert it to digital. You may not need to do this, depends on what you're recording to (adat, etc), but you HAVE to have the right interface or you're screwed.. My soundcard is simply a bridge to my hard drive, and luckily it allows me to bypass its coverters if I want to. Since this seems to possibly be the missing link, I'm gonna try the Lucids with a real good preamp and see what happens. Fingers are crossed.
Oh, and a soundcard that has spdif is probably not a standard soundcard, but more to the professional end... my soundcard has low-z 4 mic pre's built in, also.
 
dobro. if you use an external converter you go into your sound card digitally - thereby bypassing the converters of the sound card itself. In other words, you are using the sound card as an I/O only
Jeez I'm getting stupid, tubedude just said all that :)
 
OK joys, I love this shit. Ever since I've heard of their existence, I wanted to have a 96k converter. But I am still unclear on a few things. If I am correct, I will need the A/D converter to take my audio and record it on my hard drive at 96k. Now here is where I am lost, outside of getting the D/A counterpart - how the heck am I gonna bring this digital signal down to 44k for finalising? Will the Lucid A/D do this?
 
all the converters, have signal rates of 32khz to 96 khz depending on type.

The lucid can convert from 32khz to 96khz, so be not worried.
 
Cool CyanJaguar,
I can dig that, but if the A/D does it all, what the hell do they make the D/A for?
 
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