Loudness

S

scottr

New member
How do I get my songs louder? Pls don't flame. I understand compression will kill my dynamic range but I feel like I'm already compressing too much and I still can't get my songs loud enough. I do about 3:1 when tracking vocals and guitars and then I often add anywhere from 2:1 to 4:1 on most tracks, and then I usually compress the whole mix about 1.5:1 or 2:1. This seems like a hell of a lot of compression to me. When I export my songs (from Cubase VST), I just run the song through at the highest level I can without it clipping and leave it there. Is some clipping OK? What am I doing wrong?

Scott
 
You have your ratios set, but thats not all there is to compression. It will vary with the individual tracks but lets say I have a vocal track, and I am watching the meter and it has a range from -20db to -8db as the peaks. If I set the compressor to start working 12:1 at -8db it wouldn't really do much. If I set it to start working at, say, 4:1 at -18db, it would be balancing out the track much better. This is just an example.

But compression isn't really the key to solving loudness... especially when recording digital. When recording, record as hot a signal as you possible can without clipping. If you have a hardware compressor or limiter, it helps to use it just a bit when recording, so you can get a good hot level. The louder your original track is, the easier it will be to work with later in the mix. Also, maybe you actually want more sound in the mix. Doubling guitars and panning them makes the sound really expand. In some cases, doubling, tripling, quadrupling, vocal tracks also expands the sound. This is dependant on the music which you are producing.

Look at your mixes in a wave editor. If you have a thin line with lots of peaks sticking out, you're getting a pretty thin sound. A fat hairy caterpillar looking wave is what you are going for. Though, as has been mentioned alot around here lately, there is a limit to exactly how big and fat you want that wave form to be. When you start chopping off all the peaks, you are doing too much....at least for some people.

hope this helps some

H2H
 
Brickwall limiter like the L2. Practically no limit to how loud (and, of course, how unmusical) you can make a track.
 
a big part in getting it louder is making its APPARENT loudness higher. Any parts (electric guitars, acoustic guitars, vocals, keyboards, etc.) that don't need low frequency information should be high-passed. You're probably accumulating a ton of lows from all the different instruments, and that can quickly eat up all your headroom (as well as make your song sound like shit). Get to high-passin!
 
VotaIdiota said:
a big part in getting it louder is making its APPARENT loudness higher. Any parts (electric guitars, acoustic guitars, vocals, keyboards, etc.) that don't need low frequency information should be high-passed. You're probably accumulating a ton of lows from all the different instruments, and that can quickly eat up all your headroom (as well as make your song sound like shit). Get to high-passin!
Click to expand...

how does that eat up your headroom?

if i had a part at -5db with no bass, or at -5db with tons of bass...

what's the difference in my headroom?
 
I think the reason is because lots of low frequencies, like below 50hz I think aren't even audible. So you end up with all these sounds that either your speakers can't reproduce or you can't hear anyway. So say all your sounds are below there. You can crank up the volume as much as you won't and you still won't hear anything. Anyone have some more insight?

Scott
 
wes480 said:


how does that eat up your headroom?

if i had a part at -5db with no bass, or at -5db with tons of bass...

what's the difference in my headroom?
Click to expand...

I'm sure someone else here can tell you the specifics on sound wave physics and what not, but basically it boils down to this....
It takes far more power to produce -5 db of 80 hz energy than it does to produce, say, -5 db of 5khz energy. If you have guitars in the mix that are playing low parts, you'll start getting a lot of buildup in the lows and low-mids of your mix. Not only will it start to sound like ass, but all those frequencies that the guitars shouldn't be occupying in the first place will take up a lot of your stereo's power.

On a semi-related topic, this is why most hip-hop utilizes ridiculously sparse arrangements. There's two instruments that have large amounts of power (the kick and the bass), and very minimal instrumentation (all higher parts) lower in the mix around it. This is so they can maximize the song's apparent loudness.

Another example, although I'm starting to digress, is the thing I keep bringing up... apparent loudness. Listen to a modern song that has a dense mix. It'll probably be limited to 0, which is the highest actual loudness. But if you just record an acoustic guitar, and then limit it till it hits 0, chances are it'll seem drastically louder than the full mix song.
 
wes480 said:
how does that eat up your headroom?

if i had a part at -5db with no bass, or at -5db with tons of bass...

what's the difference in my headroom?
Click to expand...

The part without the bass will actually sound much louder. Then you would have to turn up the part with the bass to make it compete and eventually you can't turn it up any louder without clipping or totally overwhelming the other tracks and it still may not sound loud enough.

Scott- those compressin settings are pretty mild. I find myself using anywhere from 2:1 to 20:1 depending on the material. I don't worry about 'too much'. If it sounds good it must be just enough.

Using a very high ratio with a high threshold (limiting) is the best way to raise the RMS (average level, perceived loudness) but it can also alter your sound very fast. Using a lower ratio with a very low threshold will sound a little more natural but will not give the same raise in RMS.
 
Although I haven't heard the rush cd, I would generally have to disagree with the author. While Rush might not sound the best "loud", other bands do. For example, Blink 182 has a very loud cd. I can imagine how bad it would sound uncompressed. But like i said it works well for some and doesn't work well for others.

Also getting the mix loud is good for radio. Radio stations have "loud wars" too.

Also it is possible to achieve a loud mix without compressing the mix if the band is using triggered drums (w/o varrying volumes), and heavy distorted guitars.
 
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