Looking to recap my old R2R

JDMiller1988

New member
I have a sony tc-777 that sounded really good but is having some issues, the most common one is great loss of gain on the second channel. I have read a little about these older decks and all the electrolytic caps should be replaced on something this old. I have done some electronic work before (modded/built some pedals) but haven't dug into something quite like this before. I am very confident that I can track down replacement caps and figure out which ones to replace but I was wondering if anyone on here has ever recapped a deck from the mid 60s and if there are any tips before I bust it open? Thanks!
 
If you're going to recap it anyway, that's cool, but you might take a look at the trimmer pots for channel volume.

I have a 645 that kept dropping out on the right channel. Turned out to be a dodgy trimmer pot.

Dunno about the 777, but on mine they were accessible from the bottom with the metal cover removed.
 
Thanks and any cap suggestions?

Thanks, It worked great for a while and now is not reliable enough to track anything on the second channel so I was just going to do some maintenance and see what happens. Thanks for the hint on the trimmer pot.

A couple of things that I am looking into now is what kind of caps are best to use in vintage audio equipment, seems like they are cheap enough to buy the best, anyone have preferred brands? Anything I should stay away from?

Oh and I will take pictures and post about the repair of course, seems to not be too many projects like this on the board.
 
I don't have a TC-777 manual set. I have a set for the TC-765...dunno how similar they are...

I like Nichicon.
 
A couple of things that I am looking into now is what kind of caps are best to use in vintage audio equipment, seems like they are cheap enough to buy the best, anyone have preferred brands?

It's going to depend some on what types and values of caps are in your unit--various mfr's model ranges feature certain values and can styles--and as a general rule, it's a good bet to go for low-impedance/ESR, high temp caps. For common electrolytics I personally like Panasonic, especially the FR/FM/FC ranges (I also have been using a lot of their SU bipolar caps in my console re-cap). Nichicon also very good caps. If you have lots of axial-style caps in your unit, know that these are getting harder to find, usually temperature rated for 85C rather than 105C+, and are always a little more expensive; you can either pay a little more and get them (Nichicon and Vishay are probably what you'll find, both decent quality), or you can replace with radials with one lead stretched across the axial span (slip a little heatshrink tubing over the long lead if it's crossing traces or other electronics). I'm not sure about the cans you'll find in your particular unit, particularly in the power supply section you may find screw-ins or who knows what.

On a side note, often if Mouser doesn't have something, Digikey will and vice-versa.

That all being said, there's certainly no guarantee that re-capping will solve your particular problem, but it sure won't hurt anything so long as you're careful and don't damage traces. 30 years on, caps do go out of spec and eventually short--and new caps will definitely exceed the performance of the originals when they were new, much less now.

Still, I would solve the acute problems you're experiencing first before flogging all new caps in the entire machine. Your problem could be something as simple as an old, cracked solder joint or a dirty pot--who knows!
 
Thanks, thats what I needed to hear. I am probably going to try and solve the problem and then break into a little more detailed stuff.

I'm sure I will have more questions mid project!
 
Popped cap

Ok so I popped the machine open and seems like it was made a little different than my 388 (as I expected). I didn't find anything obviously wrong, there was a few spiders some mouse remnants and a few foil confetti stars... I am sure they could short something if they fell in to the wrong spot. I did go through and thoroughly clean all pots and switches, with my fingers crossed. Same issue.

I did find a ncc 250 1uf plastic cap that looks like its guts are falling out. It is in the section that controls the motors though. I figured, there are two channels with two identical pc boards and I have one non working channel. Is there anything wrong with just recapping the one side and seeing what happens? then I will also be able to test all the parts (including bias pots). There has got to be something up, when I power it up the lights are way dim on the second (broken) channel with a loud woosh sound.
 
I did find a ncc 250 1uf plastic cap that looks like its guts are falling out. It is in the section that controls the motors though. I figured, there are two channels with two identical pc boards and I have one non working channel. Is there anything wrong with just recapping the one side and seeing what happens? then I will also be able to test all the parts (including bias pots). There has got to be something up, when I power it up the lights are way dim on the second (broken) channel with a loud woosh sound.

Hm, sound like you'll want to replace that disemboweled cap anyway! As for the bad channel, I don't know these machines and I'm certainly not a pro tech (though I've serviced our MCI console and tape machine quite a bit and I'm about 3/4 of the way through recapping the console (several thousand of the buggers!). Did you do a spot-check for telltale signs such as bubbled electrolytic caps?

Do you have a schematic? Might start by measuring whether the same amount of power is getting to ch2 as ch1.
 
Full recap is probably the way forward but out of interest,

You say there's low gain on one channel. Is that on tape playback only, or do you get it if you monitor line/mic input also.
 
I am going to pull out a couple of the pc boards today and start poking around. I suspect the one visually bad one isn't the only problem cap. I do have the schematic and parts list.

Basically the second channel all around is sports, have to crank the gain while tracking and playback.
 
They are clean, they definitely don't look new but do work, I can actually get it to record just fine every once in a while for a couple of minutes, then with a airy thumpy static it loses gain again.

Got one of the boards out
Photoon10-4-11at149PM.jpg


Not too much going on here, the popped cap was in a different section that is a little tougher to get to, and I am going to wait on pulling it out until I have the caps for it. Thing is the popped cap is part of the relay for ff few play section and those all work fine. The popped one is really close to the relay, I didn't think relays got that hot.

Now the parts list says 1uf 250v mp cap. What does mp stand for? Any specific type of cap I should look into replacing these with, there are a lot of them in here so I want to buy something high quality. I guess I am asking if there are specific caps (type, brand) to stay away from.
 
Ok I am tracking down a good amount of these parts. I should replace the resistors as well right? Or am I going to far.

Also I am having a couple issues tracking down a couple electrolytic caps, 200uf 10v, and 15v. I should definitely stay with the same voltage and not go higher right? Or do is the voltage there to set the maximum voltage at which the cap will function?
 
you should replace with the same voltage or higher. Not lower.

200 isn't a standard value though. 220 would be much more common.
 
The only reason to replace resistors is if they were obviously underrated handling-wise when spec'ed, or if they are fried, or if you are having really, really bad thermal noise in a circuit or some other problem.

I don't replace resistors unless one of the above issues applies.

You can go higher on the cap voltage, you just don't want to go any lower. That voltage is the maximum rated sustained voltage to which a cap should be exposed. Anything higher will drastically shorten the life of the cap and ultimately will make it explode. 16V and 25V will likely be easier parts to find and should work fine as a replacements for both the 10V and 15V parts...also 200uF is not very common...220uF is the next standard value.

If you want to scan and send me schematics and tell me which parts these are I can confirm that you'd be fine to go to 220uF. Tons of options in the 220uF/16V and 25V, and likely cheaper than trying to find a more obscure value part like 200uF.
 
+1 on what's been said, resistors are usually pretty stable and long-lasting.

You're probably ok replacing the 200uf 10v and 15v caps with 220uf/16v or 220uf/25v. Like Cory says, you'll have loads of options there. On a side note, check a schematic to see whether you're dealing with polar or non-polar caps.

Looking at your pic, the funny thing is that you've got axial-lead caps in radial-lead spaces, lucky you lol! It looks like you have some tantalums in there too. I don't know if it was just my particular situation but I've had lots of dead tantalums in my console, especially on lamp rails. I didn't have any problem replacing them with plain old aluminum electrolytics but have a look at your schematic and see what you're dealing with there.
 
Well I will try to stay with 200uf, being able to increase the voltage really increases my options. Some of the replacements I have come across are tantalum, specs say they last longer than aluminum but Briank is saying he has some dead ones, should I stay away? I have noticed tat some of the orange drop caps must have been replaced since they are not the same spec as the schematic.
 
Why stick with the 200uF??

And if the stock part is aluminum electrolytic, stay with aluminum electrolytic.

Also, if some parts don't match the schematic and it is consistent that way across other boards (if there are multiple boards) stick with the part values on the board if they are higher value...there may have been product updates not reflected on the schematic.
 
I guess I don't need to I am just recapping the one side (for now) so I was going to try and keep it the same as the other one. Or am I over thinking it? I have no problem upping to 220 if I can find the right caps.

Here is the schematic for the board I am recapping.

ScreenShot2011-10-08at102840AM.png
 
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