Looking to find some kickass headphones

  • Thread starter Thread starter bewildered
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mixmkr said:
btw, the "MoreMe" headphones are pure garbage. Don't ever let a "client" put on a pair of something better if they use them for tracking, as they won't want to put the "more me" phones back on. But, they don't hardly cost anything either and can crank. Good for drummers... they can't tell good sound anyway!!!
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Not many headphones are "pure" - garbage, or otherwise. For a lot of "rock" and "metal" tracking, the MoreMe's will do the job, and that's their intended purpose. They're cheap and almost indestructable.

After you've blown about a 1,000 bucks worth of "good" headphones, you'll come to appreciate the MoreMe's a lot more. The nice part is that if you really don't like the MoreMe's, I'll refund your money.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
The nice part is that if you really don't like the MoreMe's, I'll refund your money.
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Actually, the nice part about the More Me headphones is I have had a half dozen of them for over a year now and they ALL still work...
I guess I forgot the "indestructable" word in my description!!

and I plan to keep them. No refund wanted....unless they've doubled in value!
naw...they're a good deal.



But remember, one mans trash (garbage), is another mans treasure!! ;)


:) :) :)
 
Controversial but interesting post, Dewd. But I smile everytime I see folks talk about "burning in" their phones for the right sound. I've asked pros I know; I've raised the question in this forum; yet I've rarely encountered anyone who could verify (let alone measure) precisely what that burn-in time does. Most folks seem to chalk it up to snake oil although I'm trying to keep an open mind.

For what it's worth, I bought the Sony 7506s, AT 40s, and Senn 280s to try at home for a week. The Senns got my highest vote for the combination of sound, comfort, isolation, and snug fit (important for us self-recording guitarists). Great for tracking and for helping with mixdown, but I'd suggest moving to monitors for more serious mixing. The relative balance and placement of instruments change a bit when I move to monitors.

J.
 
will i need a headphone amp if my headphones are plugged into my soundcard? seems like my computer would have all the power the headphones could use.
 
what kind of sound card is it? if it has a headphone amp built in, then it should work.
 
jeffree said:
Controversial but interesting post, Dewd. But I smile everytime I see folks talk about "burning in" their phones for the right sound. I've asked pros I know; I've raised the question in this forum; yet I've rarely encountered anyone who could verify (let alone measure) precisely what that burn-in time does. Most folks seem to chalk it up to snake oil although I'm trying to keep an open mind.J.
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There's "some" truth to it. Speakers, when new, are stiff. As they "break in", the surround becomes more flexible, and the resonant frequency goes down a bit. How much they "improve" will depend on the design of the speaker. Some won't improve, some will.

When I worked at JBL, speakers went out with about a 45Hz Free Air Resonance; after a while in use, I've seen then drop into the low 30's.
 
i can honestly say im getting a headache from all this. im looking around and i find a forum entirely dedicated to headphones

http://www.head-fi.org/

a thread 10 miles long on whats the best headphone, and a dedicated audiophile site that lists headphones up to $500. so am i correct to assume that im only ever going to get crap for under $100, or is it that because my ears have never graced these magical overpriced headphones, i will never know the difference between some pos $10 headphones and a $100 model?

and then i find out that monitor headphones apparently give you untainted sound, but this doesnt necessarily mean that the sound is good.

being an audiophile that just likes HQ sound for music listening, am i looking in the wrong direction when i look for monitors, or is the audiophile sound only for the rich?
 
mixmkr said:
btw, the "more me" headphones are pure garbage. Don't ever let a "client" put on a pair of something better if they use them for tracking, as they won't want to put the "more me" phones back on. But, they don't hardly cost anything either and can crank. Good for drummers... they can't tell good sound anyway!!!
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Although I wouldn't exactly call them garbage, the MoreMe's aren't "hifi" to be sure.... but their intended purpose is for use with bands that tend to get frustrated and throw things - like lead players who still can't nail a good solo after 34 takes....

The last thing I want is for them to be pitching the T20s around the room at $100-a-pop! $20-a-pop cans make so much more sense in that situation.........
 
TheDewd said:
Don't listen to anyone that tells you you can't mix with headphones. This is only true if you don't listen to music in headphones all the time. I never listen to speakers cause they all sound like shite to me compared to good open headphones. Since I only listen to music on headphones, mixing is easy. Headphones also take the room out of the equation (which means less $$$ spent) and they provide a much better sense of bass than nearfields/mid-fields. And don't even get me started about the hassle of having a room treated for a sub...LOL!
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Complete and total nonsense, IMO.....
 
well bewildered, if you aren't going to be buying these headphones to do any music production that requires critical listening, then you don't need flat response and stuff like peolpe here would normally recommend. if it's just for playback for your own listening enjoyment, then you'd be better off with "audiophile" geared stuff than "studio" geared. having untainted sound is EXTREMELY important when it comes to studio monitors used for mixing or mastering. but yeah if you're just going to use them to playback music that has already been finished, then you would probably be better off not using studio monitors or studio headphones. i'd still recommend the HD280 for the sound quality, they're very nice and way under $500. ;)
 
bewildered said:
i can honestly say im getting a headache from all this. im looking around and I find a forum entirely dedicated to headphones
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You're never going to find even two or three people to agree on what the best headphone is. The best thing you can do is try to compare them in person. That's what I did and I ended up with the Sony 7506 and the ATH-M40fs. You can read until you have the proverbial headache, as you have done, and it won't tell as much as you can learn in 10 minutes listening on a bunch of headphones. Some music stores still have headphone comparison stations.

As far as the More-Me's, those seem to me to be headphones you hand out to the band when tracking. The reasoning being why have the band ruin your expensive headphones. As far as headphones being fragile, I've had both mine for years and years and they are still working great. That's becuase I take care of them and don't abuse them. If I'd had drummers throwing them around, then most certainly they would have been dead years ago.

And as far as mixing on headphones and not using speakers at all, I personally don't agree with that at all. Headphones can be very handy for checking a mix, for listening for tiny details like flaws in audio editing, quiet snaps and pops, that kind of thing. But to use headphones to do the whole mix, that's really a recipe for disaster in my opinion.
 
SonicAlbert said:
And as far as mixing on headphones and not using speakers at all, I personally don't agree with that at all. Headphones can be very handy for checking a mix, for listening for tiny details like flaws in audio editing, quiet snaps and pops, that kind of thing. But to use headphones to do the whole mix, that's really a recipe for disaster in my opinion.
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If you and Bruce and others don't like it, that's your thing, but to say that one CANNOT do it or that it's a recipe for disaster is a stretch. You guys are being conservative and all you do is repeat what you have always learned...there are no HARD rules in audio and mixing with headphones certainly isn't one.

IMHO, it's much better to mix on $500 quality headphones than with $1000 nearfield in an untreated room. As far as I'm concerned, every speaker set I used under thousands of $$$ sounds like poo compared to $500 headphones....
 
Just received this email this morning:

Harvey,

Please email me the total price including shipping for 5 sets of MoreMe headphones with extension cables. I've got boxes of broken phones that cost way too much to repair, so your phones are a great alternative.

Have you talked to the great Augspurger lately? George designed our room in 1983 and I have not changed anything acoustically in all these years. It still sound great! George is the real deal and in my opinion the best guy
in the business.

My best to you and yours,

Mike

Mike Clark
Southern Tracks Recording
www.southerntracks.com

Now, Southern Tracks just happens to be one of the best studios in the United States. Several of their mics costs more than my entire mic collection. Take a look at their client list (and their mic/equipment list).

This email just made my day!!!

Note: George Augspurger is a legendary studio designer (and an old friend from my days at JBL in the 60's, where we worked together). George designed our studio, too.
 
TheDewd said:
If you and Bruce and others don't like it, that's your thing, but to say that one CANNOT do it or that it's a recipe for disaster is a stretch. You guys are being conservative and all you do is repeat what you have always learned...there are no HARD rules in audio and mixing with headphones certainly isn't one.

IMHO, it's much better to mix on $500 quality headphones than with $1000 nearfield in an untreated room. As far as I'm concerned, every speaker set I used under thousands of $$$ sounds like poo compared to $500 headphones....
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Sorry, DEWD, but I have to agree with Bruce. My experience of MIXING with headphones has always been disappointing, even though I listen to music with cans all the time. I can tell that I've been misled by them as soon as I hear the mixes with speakers. Maybe some people can mix with headphones, but I certainly can't, and I think it's a disservice to suggest to a newbie that this should even be considered as an option.

Don
 
TheDewd said:
If you and Bruce and others don't like it, that's your thing, but to say that one CANNOT do it or that it's a recipe for disaster is a stretch. You guys are being conservative and all you do is repeat what you have always learned...there are no HARD rules in audio and mixing with headphones certainly isn't one.
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Maybe SOME people can mix using headphones only, but I ain't one of them. I think that it's a recipe for disaster. There is an acoustical mix you get in the air from separated speakers that is missing when you use headphones. It shows up especially in trying to set the vocal levels and the reverb levels.

Part of the problem occurs because the sound will be different for each listener, depending on the acoustic chamber created by the air space between the ear and the headphone. The differences in that enclosed air chamber will affect the response of the headphones. Once you learn a particular speaker's deficiencies, it's easier to get a good mix on them than with headphones.

There are exceptions which test a rule and you may be one of those exceptions. That doesn't mean it will work for everybody else.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Once you learn a particular speaker's deficiencies, it's easier to get a good mix on them than with headphones.
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What about learning headphone deficiencies as well ? You can learn headphones as much as you can learn speakers.

If I had the money and space, I would mix with speakers, but that would cost over $20 000 just to get a treated room, good amp, excellent speakers, etc. This is too much for most people to afford.

You are very knowledgeable Harvey and I think you can agree with me that a $500 headphone system sounds as good as a $10 000 speaker system. At least, that's what experience has told me over the years.

Plus, don't you think it's better to learn headphones and mix with them rather than mix with cheapo powered nearfields (I hate those BTW) in an untreated room ? Headphones take the room out of the equation, nobody can argue with that. What Bruce came up with is that everyone hears headphones differently because the air chamber around the head is not as big and dispersive as the air around speakers in a room. I absolutely agree with that, but the same can happen with speakers in an untreated room. Plus, when you learn how the headphones relate to your hearing, it's the same as learning monitors.

When I mix and master, what I want is the best sound quality and accuracy my money can give me. If I have $1000 to spend, I think NOBODY would agree I could buy a speaker setup that would be accurate enough for mixing. Let alone treating my room. However, for $1000 you get reference electrostatic headphone systems that are just about as flat as one can expect.

It seems that most people here use speakers cause they think when they mix they have to make the system a "common denominator" and that since most people use speakers, you have to mix on them. This is utter crap. Mixing is about hearing things as accurate as possible to have full control over the actions you are doing.

When I do a mix, I want it to sound right for people who got the right gear to hear it. If you guys want to mix for the masses that get cheapo stereos and crap, do it, but I prefer quality anytime. For example, I would prefer a $50 000 reference system with in-wall mid-fields to some NS10. Why ? Cause the NS-10 sounds like crap and are not accurate or flat.

Mixes made in the 70's were much better because people didn't use fucking little nearfield everyone and his mother can afford. Do you guys really think those little powered speakers are good ? Headphones are MUCH more accurate $$$ compared to $$$.
 
Dr.Grace said:
think it's a disservice to suggest to a newbie that this should even be considered as an option.
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What is a disservice is telling the newbie he can get better tone, more accurate phase relationship, more accurate imaging, better damping, more even response out of nearfields like the Mackies, the Samsons, the Yorkvilles, the Tannoy Reveals. All those small nearfields lack the full sound quality a same cost headphone setup gives.

Whenever I see you guys recommend those small cheapo speakers and hear about mixing with nearfields, I tell to myself "why don't they just use mid-fields?". If I had the choice, I'd mix with mid-fields having at least a 12" woofer and no subwoofer, because subs are artificial sounding (and resonant) and unless perfectly setup, there is a frequency gap between the bass and the low-mids.

I will never understand why people buy small powered nearfields. The amps in those suck big ass. Do you guys really think Mackie and Yorkville and Samson and Yamaha can make a good small amplifier to fit in those boxes ? And don't even get me started on Wharfdale who the fuck are they? Talk about the big Tannoys with 15" concentric drivers which are much more phase accurate coupled with a quality hand-made and hand wired class-A amp and we'll talk.

Bottom line is: Unless you are rich, you get much better sound out of headphones for the money you put in. Remember: Mixing and Mastering is ALL about accuracy, not anything else.
 
TheDewd said:
Unless you are rich, you get much better sound out of headphones for the money you put in. Remember: Mixing and Mastering is ALL about accuracy, not anything else.
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Once again... I disagree completely.........



TheDewd said:
What Bruce came up with is that everyone hears headphones differently because the air chamber around the head is not as big and dispersive as the air around speakers in a room. I absolutely agree with that, but the same can happen with speakers in an untreated room.
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No - it's NOT the same... the room acts as a buffer to the differences.... with headphones, you're wearing to INDIVIDUALIZED tiny rooms on your ears... with speakers, what everyone hears is NOT as iindividualized.......

You do what you like, Dewd, but poo-poo'ing the experiences of professionals is doing a disservice to novices -- when they don't get the results you say they can (which WILL happen if they follow your er, "advice"), then you'll have helped them waste their money..........
 
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