Looking to buy a Teac/Tascam 80-8...

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WhinyLittleRunt

WhinyLittleRunt

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I want to get into narrow-format tape recording, and saw a Teac 80-8 that someone was selling a few months back and have been hooked on the idea of owning one ever since. I had this gut feeling that it would be a pretty good recorder and I've been told that it is. The problem is finding one...

The guy who was selling it still has it, but he wanted something like $850 for it (it had the dbx, remote and stand, plus very low hours which makes it awesome right there) but I just can't swing that kind of cash. I keep seeing them going for around 200-400, usually as is, but I worry about finding one on the bay since I can't see the heads and inspect it unless I find one that's within somewhat decent driving distance. If I were to get one of eBay at some point, and if I really had to get the heads re-lapped it is really that big of a deal? I'd love to know the general cost of having all three heads done anyway since I can see that being an issue somewhere down the road. What else should I be looking for before buying, and what kinds of questions should I be asking to determine the condition of the unit?

Also, does anyone have any audio clips that were originally done on an 80-8?
 
Oh crap, wait a minute...

Wouldn't I need to send the individual outs to the tape machine? I'd probably have to do that with the Neotek rather than my own Mackie, huh...
 
You have a neotek? :cool:

If you look through the thread up top "....analog recordings" Richard King has some recordings he did on the 80-8..... if they're still linked.
 
Cool, I'll check it out.

Yeah, it's not technically mine, but it came to the project studio pretty much broken and I restored it, not knowing wtf I was doing at all but getting my feet totally wet in the process, and now it works fine (with the exception of the LED meters which is a power supply problem). We got it on the cheap... it's a series 1e with 12 channels installed, 8 subs. Awesome board, but we have the subs running to this dopey Tascam US-428 interface to get it into Logic 9, and the converters on it probably suck. I'd love to hear what a Neotek pre and a Teac 80-8 can sound like!
 
A four buss board is fine for 8 track recording, the 1202 probably a little limited on the buss outs, but the 12x8 would be perfect. What was the guy with the 80-8 using? I used a Teac 5 for a while with an 8 track. (8x4) and FWIW the Fostex 80 expects a four buss board, having the 1-4 inputs normalled to 5-8 as well.

$850 seems a quite a bit steep, but bear in mind if you find something in the $200-400 range, add at least $100-150 to that to ship ***properly***, and add another $100-200 to have it aligned and calibrated, unless you want to do that yourself, but you'll still need the MRL tape which will fun you about $200. If this machine is pristine and you can audition it it is worth taking into account the other "hidden" costs of buying non-local. That said, I know of one that has been sitting in a garage in the LA area for a while.

Heads relapping is about $120 per head give or take.
 
You will need a picture of a target taped to the wall with the message "hit head here" if you want to use the Mackie long term...it is basically a stereo mixer even though it has the alt buss...monitoring is the issue...being able to monitor tracking for overdubs and such. You can do it with a board like the 1202 but it'll mean constant repatching...that's where the target comes in, especially if you are working with artists that need cue mixes during tracking and overdubs too...And I personally find the Mackie pres take the life out of stuff. Clean and quiet and they get the job done but I think you'd better plan on using the Neotek. Try 'em both but I'd put my money on the 12 x 8 board for sound and for the convenience of true 8-buss mixing...it keeps the flow of the music happening when you aren't having to monkey with "now wait...this one goes here? And how am I gonna monitor that? Dang...hold up guys this is going to take a bit..." Total buzzkill.

Why the 80-8? Not knocking it...its a robust deck and there is a user community for sure, but a TSR-8 (for instance) is going to be much more gentle on the tape, has the convenience of onboard noise reduction, has a much wider user community, is more readily available and cheaper than $850...easier to haul around for sure. Want that more vintage look with the analog VU's? Then look for a 38...huge user community, solid transport that is more advanced than the 80-8, sounds great and are pretty common. Still has a nice vintage look. You could also look for an Otari 5050 8-track. Also pretty common, great sounding, and robust. You'll need outboard noise reduction if you want to track with noise reduction but that all depends on what type of music you are tracking, what kind of sound you are going for and how you setup the deck.

Can't get that 80-8 package off your mind? That's part of it too. I have a dinosaur Ampex MM-1000. Crude transport by today's standards, but I just fell for it as soon as I saw the craigslist ad and nothing else realy matters AFAIC...If you have a thing for the 80-8, honestly, I can see paying a premium for a local sale that is in a condition to warrant the asking price, especially if it comes with all those accessories and is a verifiable low-hours deck. If you want it and can verify that it is fully functional, assess what your upper limit is. Discuss this with the seller and explain that you have fallen for it and would be a great home for it but you can truly only afford $x and politely ask if the seller would consider it. If they say no then ask them to keep you in mind. If its meant to be its meant to be.

I concur with the relap cost...if you send your block to someplace like Sprague Magnetics in California or JRF Magnetics in Florida you can expect to pay maybe $300-ish to have the block lapped and setup. Spendy, BUT it will be the best condition you can get and it'll be ready to go. Relapping isn't magic and it can be done at home. I'd consider it an advanced part of the art, but Nortronics put out a guide on it which I and others have in pdf format. evm1024, a member here has done a number of heads with great success, so that's just something to consider along with everything else. You CAN do all kinds of stuff yourself on these things, it just depends on how much money you are willing to spend on the tools and how much time you are willing to take to learn, including making mistakes.

I hope that helps and doesn't muddy things. Whatever you decide local is best...you can see/feel/touch/operate/interogate and bring it home yourself knowing its not getting dropped on its corner from 6'. Prioritize on condition rather than make/model.
 
Thanks, Sweetbeats - I think you may have swayed me back to the 38. It was always a toss-up between the two, but everything you said makes sense and I would much rather have quality and condition in the long run if I'm going to sink money into something.
 
AFAIK the stock 80-8 doesn't have varispeed and the capstan motor is locked to the mains frequency (which can be interesting if you ever want to switch between 50/60 hz countries). However, this does mean that the motor can be rebuilt easily, or so I've heard.

Some modified 80-8s and the 38/TSR-8 have a DC capstan motor which does support varispeed. However, this does mean that the motor can't easily be repaired. The TSR-8 in particular has a unique capstan motor which is hard to obtain - AFAIK the 32/34 and 38 all share the same capstan motor so it's easier to come by should the worst happen.

Note that of these three machines, only the TSR-8 can be synchronized to another machine or a PC. However, the TSR-8 is a 2-head machine, the others have 3 heads.
 
jpmorris is spot-on with everything he said.

The stock 80-8 had an AC capstan motor which IS much easier to service for the DIY'er. They had, as an option, a DC capstan motor as well as the VS-88 varispeed controller. Nothing wrong with having an AC motor if you don't need to varispeed the transport...the AC motor will quite stubbornly lock to the frequency of the building mains power. :)
 
SteveM said:
You have a neotek? :cool:

If you look through the thread up top "....analog recordings" Richard King has some recordings he did on the 80-8..... if they're still linked.
Click to expand...

I believe they are. ;)
 
I want to get into narrow-format tape recording..
Click to expand...

BTW, that's a bit of a dubious term...not sure I'd call the 80-8 "narrow-format"...yes its not "wide-format", but did you know that the Tascam 1/2" 8-tracks feature a track width that is essentially the same as a 2" 24-track?
 
No, I didn't know that! That's pretty awesome- now I can tell that to my buddy who tells me anything less than 2" is wasting time ;). But this is for all Tascam 1/2" machines, correct?

I am going to try to negotiate a price with the guy who has the 80-8 just because I know it has very low hours, but otherwise will continue looking for a 38 as well. Man, thanks for all your help!
 
Last thing for now -

What really is a good price for an 80-8 with low hours, and the DBX unit together? I just want to know where I stand...
 
The original non-varispeed 80-8 is the most bullet-proof 8 track Tascam ever built. Some caveats: Heat is its biggest problem, causing logic and/or relay glitches if not outright failure. The simplest means of prevention is to remove the fasteners on the meter panel and prop the panel up a bit with some small shims so excess heat can escape. The companion dx 8 dbx unit is a single-card per channel unit. The control signal from the 80-8 tells each card whether it is to encode or decode, making the 80-8/dx 8 combination relatively slow when doing punch in/punch outs. Not really a big deal but use of stand-alone simultaneous dbx units makes it a total non-issue. If anyone is interested, I know where an after-market remote/single place auto-locater can be found.
 
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a couple points --

i will go against conventional wisdom and say that i believe the 80-8 to be much better than the 38 (i have used both but my experience with the 38 is limited). the '80s era tascams sound "flatter" or "better" (i.e. closer to the source) and color the sound a lot less. but the 70s stuff has a grit that is missing from the later models and i think the 80-8 is also more robust.

but it is not a popular deck (for whatever reason), so i would not pay more than $500 for one. they really don't go for too much, the going rate is about $200-$500.

i would personally never touch the noise reduction unit either. the remote is worth a few dollars though.
 
WhinyLittleRunt said:
No, I didn't know that! That's pretty awesome- now I can tell that to my buddy who tells me anything less than 2" is wasting time ;). But this is for all Tascam 1/2" machines, correct?

I am going to try to negotiate a price with the guy who has the 80-8 just because I know it has very low hours, but otherwise will continue looking for a 38 as well. Man, thanks for all your help!
Click to expand...

the difference in sound between Teac type stuff and "pro" machines have little to nothing to do with track space or tape width. mainly the electronics, heads, etc are much different. in addition to that, you could actually argue that the more tracks you have, the more noise and sound quality degradation you get anyway. something like 1/2" 4-track can potentially sound much better than 2" 24-track.

a company named Stephens made a 40-track 2" machine in the late '60s/early '70s and no one would call that "prosumer" or "narrow format". i believe Leon Russell used this one at his Shelter studios around this time. Scully made a 12-track 1" as well. these formats did not take off in the "pro" world because they were unique and it was difficult to bounce from studio to studio etc for overdubbing.
 
I would agree with the comment about the electronics on the 1/2" TASCAM's. If the track width was the only deciding factor TASCAM would have sold millions of these machines.

The quality of the electronics are are at least as important as the track width.

But it is true. The track width is within a couple of thousandth's of the 2" machines.
 
lonewhitefly said:
but it is not a popular deck (for whatever reason), so i would not pay more than $500 for one. they really don't go for too much, the going rate is about $200-$500.

i would personally never touch the noise reduction unit either. the remote is worth a few dollars though.
Click to expand...

He has everything, including the mixer too. I am going to see if he will sell me the deck and the remote for about $500, but last I spoke to him he was pretty adamant that I need the dbx unit because it records much quieter. Do you think the noise reduction muddies the sound at all? It seems to on the portastudios but that's a whole different animal.
 
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