looking to build an isolation room into existing studio room

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WillyDavidK

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I'm looking into building an isolation room for primarily mic'ing vox and drumset. I want to build it into my existing studio, which has a lot of extra space. The room is on the second floor of a 2-story house built in the 70's. Floor foundation is wood. The studio currently has 2 computers, a window A/C unit, and a small refridgerator running, so there is a LOT of noise. My main goal is to be able to record from within the isolation room and hear very little or no noise from outside (it's not big deal to turn the window A/C unit off so it's mainly the two computers' noise). Isolating the sound from traveling to other areas of the house isn't a main concern, but would be a good added bonus (but no need to go to extra expense to try to achieve this).

It looks like the room will likely be around 5-7' square, depending on how thick the insulation needs to be. I would like to put a window on one wall to be able to see into the room from the console, and I am going to try to use a heavy steel door that was originally built with this house, but is now being replaced. The door and the window will not be on the same wall.

Hopefully that's enough information to get started, I've read around a bit, and have heard the suggestion to build a 'room inside of a room' so I'm just looking for some more detail and other suggestions so I can pick the best approach.

Depending on the size of the room, accoustic padding may not be in budget - otherwise I'll just use ceiling tiles as a substitute to absorb some of the resonant sound.
 
im planning a similar project...

i'd advise against the square. i'll post my design tomorrow, i need to scan it at work.

honestly, i guess it wont make that much of a difference, square or not, but its agreed on that waves build up in well in 90 degree corners.

im still not sure as to the specifics of the construction. i think im going to go with 6" walls instead of 4" (depthwise), but i know im stuffing it with some extra insulation. i think i may put some thicker plywood on the walls, instead of sheetrock, or in addition to, im really not sure. definitly a large window in it though!

for some extra 'cool factor' points, im installing a patch type thing for connecting the cables through, instead of cutting a hole in the wall.

ok ok i dont make much sense, but when its done, i will post pics and it will all come together (i hope)
 
also, im not sure about the steel door.. a wood door might result with less standing waves. well, just cover it with some thick 703 or mineral wool!
 
well I mean the door is steel reinforced, it's covered with a pretty thick layer of wood as well (3" I would guess)

Hm and I was under the impression that square = better accoustics, I guess I'm completely mistaken o_0 Sorry I'm completely new to accoustics and such, I just ran into this article with more research,http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html, and tried to print it out - only to come back 30 minutes later to see the printer spurting out the last page it had in it with very few lines of color on the page (the black cartridge was completely used up!!). I'm considerably a bit overwhelmed at the moment, but just trying to get my head up to the surface so I can get started.
 
Are you planning on partitioning of existing space or building a free standing "booth"?
fitZ
 
Basically I'm just planning on building the room into the unused corner of my current room, by reinforcing the two existing walls, and building 2 more. This will leave me with a backwards 'L' shaped space outside.

EDIT: OK, here I just threw a small diagram together in mspaint to give you a better idea of what I mean. It's not nearly to scale or anything, just to show what I'm talking about. Black represents existing wall, red represents wall I plan to build

diagram.JPG
 
I'm looking into building an isolation room for primarily mic'ing vox and drumset.
Drums huh.

The room is on the second floor of a 2-story house built in the 70's. Floor foundation is wood.
Ohoh. :(

My main goal is to be able to record from within the isolation room and hear very little or no noise from outside
Ok.

Depending on the size of the room, accoustic padding may not be in budget
What is your budget?

I'm just planning on building the room into the unused corner of my current room, by reinforcing the two existing walls, and building 2 more.
If the noise is inside the existing room, why would you reinforce the existing walls that will be blocked off by new walls? :confused:

Many questions to answer before suggesting solutions. No time right now. I'll be back later. Here is something to ponder. There is MUCHO other considerations implied by this simple concept though. Do not take this as complete, as it does not show floor, ceiling, connections, seals and many other details. Not to mention weight. But if isolation from within the existing roo, this is the direction you should consider. Do a search on TWO LEAF ASSEMBLIES. Then you will understand why.
 

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Hey thanks for the image rick! Even though that's just the sides, that still helps a lot to visualize what I need to do. The only thing I don't quite understand is 'remove existing gyp bd side only'.

Also something I forgot to mention last night was that there's actually a closet in this corner of the room, that I wanted to build the iso room into, I modified image to kind of give an idea of what I mean. Again this isn't to scale at all, just to get an idea.

diagram2.JPG


Another question I have is should I stick with a square design or rectangular? I've starte measuring things now and I know that this room is 12' (from door to opposite side) x 13'. I could utilize a bit more space by building a 5'x6' room instead of 5' square, but I don't know what this would do for modes and all the other accoustic impacts of this kind of dimension.

And to answer your questions, first I haven't started making the budget yet, but I would guess (hope) around a grand. I'll get back to you on that later on. Also I wanted to reinforce the existing walls to apply the same amount of reinforcement to all 4 walls, and to control sound leakage to the rest of the house.

Thanks for all the help!

EDIT: Hey, just as a request, could you give me an idea of what to do with the floor/ceiling as well (maybe a front view picture), and one thing I'm not entirely sure about is how to seperate the two layers of the wall. Do you just put up an outside layer of sheet rock, put vertical studs in the middle, sheet rock up on the other side, and then fiberglass in the middle? Also what's the best amount of space to put in between the two layers?
 
The room is on the second floor of a 2-story house built in the 70's. Floor foundation is wood. The studio currently has 2 computers, a window A/C unit, and a small refridgerator running, so there is a LOT of noise.



Hello Willy. Well, I think some reality checks are in order. At least as far as second floor drum isolation is concerned. I don't want to sound discouraging but this is difficult to achieve under the conditions you have. As it is, normal second wood framed floors are simply a membrane, which is exactly what a drum head is. Thats not to say it can't be done..but it COULD get quite expensive as well as time consuming to do correctly. And then again, if certain structural elements aren't satisfactory, it may not be possible at all.
However, it would appear that if isolating drums from the rest of the house is not a top priority, there are things that can reduce structural transmission of impact sounds to an extent. But everything depends on your budget/goal.

At this point, I would suggest you draw a plan to scale, and place everything you mentioned in the plan. Show the window, doors and ceiling height. As well as the proposed walls. Be sure to show dimensions on the plan as well.
And THEN, tell us every thing you can about this existing room. Including heating duct grills/lights etc. Post a pic or two if possible as well.

At this point it is futile to offer any real solutions as very little is known about the existing conditions. A little info on your recording setup/monitoring position etc would be helpful as well. Remember, solutions are only as good as the info you provide.

There is one thing you should undrstand here though. Anytime you partition off space in an existing residential structure, you potentially modify spatial and other requirements that must comply with local building codes. Especially when it comes to bedrooms. Size, egress, lighting, electrical, ventilation, construction, safety and other issues must meet these codes. Should you implement actual construction without obtaining a permit you set up possible loss of insurance, safety concerns and fines should it be discovered post accident.

Believe me, throwing a couple of walls up without a permit may not sound like a big deal, but studio type of construction, especially when built in habitable space is highly suseptable to disapproval by your Building inspection
department if it doesn't comply with the codes. This is why I suggest calling them or visiting their local office and ask for information. Usually, small home projects require you to submit a small plan, and pay a fee. They may even offer some code related sheets showing basic construction requirements and or other compliance issues. You may want to read this.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4442&sid=4138807424f2f59d2295fd6dee72192d

Then read this.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2921&sid=4138807424f2f59d2295fd6dee72192d

Its only 64 pages :D However, I believe you will get a good introduction to isolation/ sound transmission concepts, even if the project is a different configuration type.

Well, hope that helps for the moment.
fitZ
 
Hey thanks again for the info, I'll start working on some scale drawings and I can put some pictures up as well, to give some more information. The main concern for the isolation room is to keep noise from the existing room out, to get as clean a recording as possible.
 
Alright, still working on the drawings, but here are some pictures of the room. Ignore the crib and dolls and such, just leftover crap after a bit of room switching. Will go up to the attic soon enough. All the rest of the crap in the floor can be moved as well.

Just measured the height and it looks to be 7'11.5" from the ceilng to the tile (probably 8ft to the boards).

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Alright, here's a scale drawing of the room, and 3 proposed sizes, 5x5, 5x6, and 5x7. The pencil lines didn't scan in very well, even after I darkened them quite a bit when the first scan didn't get them at all, but the second scan got them mostly, so it's fine.

I'll try to get a scale drawing for height and such later, starting work on the front doors today.

scale.JPG
 
Hey, that helps. Although I have no time at the moment to comment, I wanted you to know I'm not ignoring you. Talk to you later.
fitz
 
awesome, thanks for the udate. I just remembered another question I meant to ask before, I'm a fan of indirect lighting, and was thinking of running flourescent indirect lights around the top corners of the room, but I know that flourescent lights do make noise, so I was wondering if flourescents are a big no-no for isolation rooms? Should i just stick with a light socket in the middle of the ceilng?
 
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

WHAT WAS I THINKING? :rolleyes: Time to measure your drums. Then take a reality check. Sorry.
 

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hey you drink alot of dr pepper dude...

and i've revised my idea.

looks like im going with a rectangle, probably around a 4'x6' or a 5'x7', only because im going to use a small jazz type kit, 18, 14, 12 + snare.

i was wondering about ventilation.. i can wire it no problem, took a course on general electronics/house wiring. i was thinking about just putting like 2" metal grate type vents at the top, all the way around the structure. i need some airflow i think, and heat does rise.
 
well I'm not all too concerned with fitting a drumset in the space, as the last time I recorded we managed to fit the drumset into my tiny bedroom next door and the available space was definately less than 5'x7' We could only get one of us in the room (he was already behind the set while we set it up, and then another person could stand in the doorway, that was about it. I guess I can go over to the drummer's house and measure his drumset if you really think it's going to be a big problem.

Oh, and while I'm thinking of it, since I've got pictures up anyways of my studio, just out of curiosity, what do you think of the accoustics in the room, I haven't treated it or anything (other than duct-taping a rug to the floor) but I'm curious as to the quality of the accoustics of the room as it is. I've heard that bookcases can act as diffusors, and that a closet full of shirts can act as a good absorber, althought I don't know how effective this is. Just curious.

EDIT: haha I live on dr pepper, there's a 12-pack in the fridge (that's really all it's used for...), and all 3 12-pack boxes behind the trash can are actually also filled with empty cans. The amazing thing is there was only one on my desk at the time of the pic. There's usually 4 or 5 before I run out of space and have to get rid of them.
 
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WDK,

I'm interested to see your drawings and hopefully construction progress photos as things develop. I'm also doing a second floor (Attic) "studio" with multiple booths, one of which will be for drums in a tight space and with the added challenge of an A-frame roof line. I'm basically doing room in a room Mass Air Mass. Don't forget to factor in space for treatment.

You're in good hands with Rick's advice.
:)
 
. I guess I can go over to the drummer's house and measure his drumset if you really think it's going to be a big problem.
Well, it may not be a problem to you...but it might to the building inspection department. In one of your pictures, there is either a HVAC supply or return register(grill/duct) The dimensions on your plan show a new wall right in line with it. And let me mention something. Partitioning off space with no regard to existing conditions may cause not only malfunctioning HVAC, but may create a hazard as well. I know throwing a couple of walls up may seem like no big deal, but should you do it incorrectly or against code, you run the risk of invalidation of home insurance should something happen. Not only that, but studio type construction, be it Resiliant Channel or double walls, or any number of other construction elements in studios, may not jive with local codes. Like FIRESTOPS. How do you firestop a double wall with an exterior wall as the outer leaf? The solution may not meet code in your local BID juristiction though.
And don't forget electrical, Code may require you to put in a light, which means switches, and by most standards I've seen, an outlet in one of those walls. That seriously requires a permit. But only your Building Inspection Department can tell you. They may say your plan is creating "habitable space" which means minimum dimensions or square footage.


Seriously, you need to talk to them first to find out the limitations. I hate to even draw anything for you right now because it is against my better judgement. If you do talk to them, let me know and I'll help you if I can. Untill then, this is a waste of time. Or contributing to possible code violation and or a hazardous situation. Yes, even a door opening the wrong direction can create it. Thats why there are codes. Good luck.
fitZ
 
Well we put a room in the garage a while back complete with several outlets, and a light swith to an overhead flourescent light, so that's not a concern. However I specifically took a picture of that vent for that reason. This is the only vent in the room, but is fully closed off and unused, due to the fact that the house's A/C is largely useless for the studio with all of the heat-generating equipment (that's why I had to get the window unit, after temperatures where getting up to 90 in the room). I thought this might be an advantage, but if we can't use it, then it would be simple to cap it up (it's closed anyways like I said). There are no sensors in the room, and actually the only sensor for the A/C is downstairs by the thermostat, which is why the upstairs is usually significantly hotter than downstairs anyways.
 
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