Looking for tips to record school band and orchestra

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TexaCali

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Hello,

I've decided to record my son's middle school band and produce a CD for a school fundraiser. The school also has an orchestra which will be recorded separately. Problem is I have no experience recording large "classical" performances. Rock bands, small ensembles, etc, yes, but nothing like this.

I have "OK" equipment, nothing high end:
Mics: AT4040, matched pair of NT5's, and a bunch of "workhorse" Shure mics (older PE series, but similar to SM57 and SM58)
AI: M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R
Analog: Mackie CR1604-VLZ (I use the pre's on the board, then go to the AI "pre eq and fader"). I also have a HBB CD recorder for stereo backup recording, plus the usual compressors and time delay effects that only get used with live sound applications.

The recordings will be done in the band rehearsal room, which is a proper band room, tiered floor, lots of non-parallel surfaces, and very "quiet".

My thought is to place the NT5's as a stereo pair (X-Y, ORTF, A-B pair?) behind and above the conductor and use my remaining mics to fill in where needed. Anyone done something similar? What instruments are most likely to give trouble and require supplemental mics? Any tips to speed the learning curve appreciated.

BTW - I should have a chance to make some test recordings a few weeks before the real deal, so I can experiment a little...but not too much.

Tips and pointers greatly appreciated.
 
Hi TexaCali, an interesting question. I'm going to assume it's a standard full orchestral layout?

I think your initial thoughts are pretty good actually. I would probably go with the NT5's as a main pair, probably spaced as opposed to coincident. ORTF is probably too narrow for an orchestra too, try starting around the 30cm mark. You probably want your left mic to be aimed at the 2nd desk of first violins, and the right at the 2nd cello desk.

I would suggest the AT4040 on the double basses, as without a spot they can easily become difficult to locate in the stereo image.

If you've got any mics that don't rely too much on bass tip-up (more the sm57 side than the 58), then you might want to put a couple up in front of the woodwind around head height when standing. One on the left in front of the flute looking slightly more towards clarinets behind than flutes in front, and one on the right looking more towards bassoons than oboes.

You might want something on timps (for similar reasons to basses), it doesn't really matter too much what it is, just to get a bit of definition really. Just don't get too close or it'll stick out before its useful in the mix, I guess something 2-3 feet above them looking down but depends on your mics.

That gives you two spare channels on your interface for anything else that sounds like it needs some help. If you have a soloist, you may want to consider swapping the AT4040 for something else and using that on the soloist.

Hope it helps, any other questions just shout.

Andrew
 
Thanks Andrew. I haven't seen the orchestra or band layout in the practice room - only when they perform in the school gym "multi purpose room" which has horrible acoustics. Not really sure how they modify the layout to combat the bad acoustics. Hopefully I will get to hear a practice session or two before hand to get a sense what is needed. But just seeing (and hearing) the empty practice room, it looks good - and way better than that horrible "gym".

You mention using a spaced pair - as close as 30cm. Isn't 30cm the distance for NOS? Do you think this same starting point would be good for the band?

Your thoughts on the double bass, wood winds, and tympani sound spot on and address some of the concerns I had.

I'm familiar with recording stringed and percussive instruments (guitars, drums, violins, etc), but the woodwinds and brass are new to me. I'm assuming the brass will punch through just fine but the woodwinds might need some supplementing as you suggest.

Thanks again for the inputs. I wish I had the luxury of trying multiple setups, but I imagine this will be one dry run and then one real deal. There are also several different "bands" at the school - honor band, regular band, orchestra, combined band+orchestra, etc. It is going to be interesting. Fortunately, just showing up and placing the mics in a position that "looks" reasonable will likely result in a recording that is far superior to what parents are used to hearing when they perform in the "gym". But obviously I want to make the best recording I possibly can.

Cheers,
Mark
 
I would go for using the matched pair of Rodes in a X/Y set up, and that's it .... for you are to be capturing the sound of the orchestra at it's fullness they will be providing all of the dynamics as a whole.
 
True, an X-Y pair might well be a good way to capture the sound of the orchestra in the room at the time, but from my experience even with some of the best orchestras in Europe that's rarely what you want to do. If you don't spot things like the basses, you make get an accurate representation of what the conductor heard, but it won't match up to your expectations of what a recording of orchestra should sound like, the basses won't be as defined etc.

And yes Mark you are spot on once again, it's very unlikely that you won't be able to hear the brass!! 30cm is indeed defined in NOS, I don't really have a precisely measured pair like that, I just start in the general ball park of around 30cm by eye, have a listen and alter the mics spacing/position/direction if the image isn't wide enough or too close etc...

Of course, there are lots of different ways of recordings an orchestra, which is why there are so many different engineers and schools of thought on the subject. Just given your equipment and the situation, I would expect to need something a bit more flattering than a co-incident pair.y
 
besides, just because I record a bunch of spot mics in addition to the stereo pair doesn't mean I have to use them. But if I don't add the spot mics there really isn't much I can do with the stereo pair after the fact if it doesn't meet my expectations (eq, compress, expand, create duplicate tracks and eq/pan different, etc...none of which is likely to solve the problem). I have the extra mics and the equipment to record them, so why not.

Cheers,
Mark
 
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