Looking for suggestions/opinions on recording set up I'm thinking about...

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photoresistor

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I am just getting into home recording and have been researching for the past couple of days for some of the best options for my band.

Our band consists of drums, 2 guitars, and bass (me). We play a variety of music... (hard to describe) its probably a mix of rock/metal or something like that. Anyways, we have access to a nice mixing board (sorry dont know the model or brand) and lots of mics because our drummer runs the sound at a church.

Our requirements for the recording:

- digital
- 8 balanced inputs

Here's what I'm thinking now:

I've been looking for a nice laptop anways so I might as well use it as a portable recording studio right? I found a good deal on an Apple powerbook G4 Ti (1ghz ppc, 1gb ram, 60gb hdd, superdrive, 15" screen, etc) and was looking in this direction.

For the audio hardware I'm looking at these three laptop recording systems:

Echo Layla24 (cardbus)

MOTU 828 (firewire) (designed specifically for macs?)

RME hammerfall (cardbus) (w/ multiface)

Which do you guys think would do best w/ my set up and requirements? Is the RME worth the extra cash? I've been reading reviews but your opinions would be nice.

Also are there any other people using a Powerbook laptop to record, with the above systems? It would be nice to hear some of your thoughts... (is it well suited to be a portable recording system?)

thanks guys

EDIT: just to let you guys know, I was just going to get a set up for the desktop PC (like the m-port, Q10, or delta 1010) but none of us have very great computers to run this stuff and it would be a pain in the butt to transport the pc to our recording spot.
 
I would advise against getting a laptop unless you NEED one or already have one. If you already ahvea half decent computer, I'd suggest getting a Delta 1010, I'm using it and like it alot. Is the mixing board you have access to a powered mixer? If so you won't be able to record with it. And don't forget monitors, you can't really do much without them.
 
Sorry, I'm not sure about much on the mixer. I'll try and figure out what it is as soon as I can get ahold of our drummer.

I was already looking into a laptop for non-recording reasons before I started looking for a recording set-up, too.

Thanks for the input.

Oh yeah, also... does anyone know what a better format is? cardbus or firewire? (like speed, reliability, etc)'

EDIT: yeah, forgot to mention monitors... we'll have access to everything the church has (stands, mics, mixer, cords, monitors, speakers, amps, etc...) so it wont be a problem.
 
Ah.... I just found out that the MOTU 828 isn't 24/96 which I was hoping for and the others support. Too bad as it seems its plug and play nature would have been very practical. (the 896 is too expensive)
 
Well looks like our plans are changing again... we were able to find a decent computer to use that we could haul around so we're not going to worry about the laptop (i suppose i would rather save the money for a new vehicle instead of a laptop now anyways).

So I've gone back to my original choices (before i looked into the laptop scenario):

- Delta 1010 ($600)
- Aardvark Q10 ($830)
- ST Audio m-port ($800)

The Delta is $200 cheaper and I've heard some good things about it (especially on this board), but I was leaning more towards the ST Audio M-port because it has the XLR (and 1/4 TRS") balanced inputs (all have optionable phantom power unlike q10), 8 insert inputs (unlike q10's 4) and I've heard good things about the older c-port. The gain controls on the front panel as well as the level meter display are nice touches too.

However, I have yet to read any actual reviews of the M-port despite the fact its been out for like 5 months (why is this??). I might just buy it anyways since the c-port got good reviews and the m-port is said to have better pre-amps and convertors, and better all around.

On the other hand, the Q10, while maybe not having as much hardware wise as the m-port has had some good ratings and reviews and seems to be a pretty popular choice around here.

(ive noticed not many have the m-port on here too)

Any input?

thanks

oh yeah, what exactly is the difference between a powered mixer and one that is not?

EDIT: there is also the Echo Layla but it seems to be the same mostly as the Delta 1010 (no xlr inputs) and is $100 more.
 
A powered mixer is a mixer with an amplifier built in which means you hook it straight up to your speakers.(does it have speaker outputs?)

Good for live work but unpractical and noisy for recording.

Be careful with that PC before you go and buy any pres and converters, is it up to scratch? memory..MhZ....storage capicity..
no point buying all this stuff if the PC is going to crash halfway through every song!!

Im using a fostex D-1624 for all my tracking then i bring it home and transfer it via SCSI and use my PC for editing and burning.

Iv'e seen D-90's on ebay for $500 if you already have a mixer seems much more portable than lugging a computer/monitor around. (which you will get sick of doing!) ;)
 
The Q10 and M-port have all those extras because they're made to be used without a mixer, but the delta 1010 has to be used with a mixer, or other outboard preamps. A set-up with a mixer and a 1010 will be more versatile then a Q10 or M-port, but it'll cost more.
 
"A powered mixer is a mixer with an amplifier built in which means you hook it straight up to your speakers.(does it have speaker outputs?)

Good for live work but unpractical and noisy for recording."

Hmmm... I'm not sure about that. I bet it is a powered mixer... live work is what theyd mostly use it for I'd bet. Our band is getting toegher today and I'll make sure I figure that out.

"Be careful with that PC before you go and buy any pres and converters, is it up to scratch? memory..MhZ....storage capicity..
no point buying all this stuff if the PC is going to crash halfway through every song!!"

Good point! Do you have any reccomendations for the speed/power/capacity of a PC going to be used for recording? We want to mix/edit/master tracks at 24/96... probably 10-12 tracks per song (thinking: 4 for drums, 2 for lead guitar, 2 for rhythym guitar, 1 for bass, 1 for vocals... sometimes we have background vocals as well), if not more. I've read some articles on this but they seem pretty outdated.

"Im using a fostex D-1624 for all my tracking then i bring it home and transfer it via SCSI and use my PC for editing and burning."

You know, I actually did look at the D1624 by Fostex before (and before that the VF160). It would be easier to haul around than a PC but I wasn't sure on the limitations for how many tracks you can record onto it? It uses RCA inputs too.... is that a problem for you? Also I dont believe the PC we'd use has SCSI. We want to do all editing on the PC, dont want to pay for extra stuff we dont need.

"The Q10 and M-port have all those extras because they're made to be used without a mixer, but the delta 1010 has to be used with a mixer, or other outboard preamps. A set-up with a mixer and a 1010 will be more versatile then a Q10 or M-port, but it'll cost more."

I see... We might want to get the m-port/q10 in case we 'outgrow' the place with the mixer or if its a amped mixer. You can still use them with a mixer right? They just dont need one?

Thanks for the input guys... much appreciated!
 
For now you have a enough information to keep you busy, work out you budget do some homework, browsing ebay can give you a lot of ideas and insight on which way you can go.

With the PC it varys from user to user and how hard you want to drive it.
For what i'm doing i would not like to have any less than i have which is 1gig athlon and 512 mg ram.

RCA inputs on The D-1624 indicate that they are unbalanced which just means the are prone to be noisy on long cable runs, but if you keep them short no problem!

SCSI's and jazz drive are cheap so after you record 16 tracks on the D-1624 you can free them up buy transferring to you PC.
 
The RME Hammerfall Multiface is without a doubt the best of all of the cards you mentioned, but i believe where i am it's double the price of the Delta 1010.


The differences in quality though may not be worth it if the rest of your signal chain isn't up to snuff. You may notice a difference but it's hard to say if it would be worth it, personally i think the delta 1010 would be best because of it's price/quality.

Some of the guys on this board who have some good preamps, IE, grace 101, FMR RNP, Great River, John hardy, etc.. With some nice mics in the Neuman TLM 103 sorta price range, would value the the quality of the RME over the Delta 1010. But they are also experienced, and most likely gear whores so that little bit of quality for double the price is worth it.

More realistically for us starters though...

And what are you using for Preamps? You will need 8 preamps for those 8 inputs. The Aardvark has 8 solid preamps, or you can get a small mackie or soundcraft board and get a set of solid preamps, or you can buy a bunch of stand alone preamps for different flavors. I think the cheapest being the Aardvark, second the mixer, and third the selection of standalones. But the quality may also follow along that line, you get what you pay for in most cases...

BUT, again, maybe not that big of a difference, and the extra money could be better spent on better mics/cables/computer components/room treatment/effects units.
 
Well I just got back from our practice... and the mixer we were going to use is a powered mixer so I guess we can't use that for the recording. I dont think we want to invest in a mixer now either (its looking like we'll be pressed to just get the main equipment).

"For what i'm doing i would not like to have any less than i have which is 1gig athlon and 512 mg ram."

Well we might have to invest in some more RAM but the processor speed should be okay... good thing RAM is cheap nowadays.

"RCA inputs on The D-1624 indicate that they are unbalanced which just means the are prone to be noisy on long cable runs, but if you keep them short no problem!"

Thats what I was afraid of... we probably need balanced inputs as we'll be all over the place where we're recording. I'm thinking I'll just go w/ a PC connected one. We won't be recording that often, and we haul a ton of crap around all the time anyways....

"And what are you using for Preamps? You will need 8 preamps for those 8 inputs. The Aardvark has 8 solid preamps, or you can get a small mackie or soundcraft board and get a set of solid preamps, or you can buy a bunch of stand alone preamps for different flavors. I think the cheapest being the Aardvark, second the mixer, and third the selection of standalones. But the quality may also follow along that line, you get what you pay for in most cases..."

Well, since now I know we can't use the mixer since its powered, looks like we aren't getting the Delta 1010. I dont think we're going to be shelling out the cash for a nice mixer now (maybe down the road some). The extra quality of the RME will probably be wasted or not needed... a little too much money as well.

So it looks like I have it narrowed down to the Aardvark Q10 and the ST Audio DSP3000 M-port. I can get the ST Audio for a little cheaper (very close though) and it has some more features as well, but I'm still weary of it as there are no reviews out yet.

They both have 8 pre-amps so I'm good to go there, and they both have options for phantom power too (q10 - 4, staudio - 8). Their inputs are balanced, and you can use XLR or 1/4" TRS (thats a nice feature).

Okay then, unless I hear some horror stories on the M-port or some bad reviews that seems where we're going.

We'll probably end up going with a PODxt for direct recording as well, with possibly mic'ing an amp to make the sound beefier. Just wish i could get into line 6's web site!

Thanks for all your replies! This forum has been very helpful, I'd be so lost without it!
 
You probably still could use the mixer you have just be careful not to record from the speaker signal outputs, maybee there is a line out somewhere? give it a try.
 
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