Looking for help with pedalboard issue

[Armistice]

because of the ability to change the settings at will without havin to go through any menus or anything like that.

Admittedly I don't play metal, but I've always used multi-effects because of the ability to step on one thing and get the exact sound I want, not worrying about whether I have the flanger on and the delay off and is the distortion on 2 or 3 and etc. etc. etc.

And if I want a different sound, I just program it into a new patch... set up banks of them for individual songs...

I'm assuming you don't, live on the fly, adjust pedal parameters...

Not trying to change your mind... just sayin' - and in terms of sound, all those patch leads just have to have a degrading effect on the tone...

Good luck! You should speak to Boss about an endorsement deal!

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

Did you ever say what you were using for an amp?

Let me tell you why I'm asking and tell you what I did. First a list of statements I consider to be true. If you disagree - say so.

1.)Individual pedals are cool and many times sound better than computer-generated FX.

2.)A daisy chained pedal board can be a bugger to configure, power, maintain and actuate (the tap dance).

3.)Individual tone is a lot more critical in the studio than onstage - because-

4.)Most of your audience can't tell the difference between acceptable tone and awesome in a live situation - but -

5.)They can tell if you fuck up the tap dance or a cable pulls out or fails.


I had a pedalboard. Not as complicated as yours but six or seven pieces. I ditched the thing (stopped using, I still have all the pedals for recording purposes) for live performance and started using an amp I had received as a Christmas gift of all things. Vox Valvetronix AD60 - Original Blue-face series not the shitty chrome grill current model. Onboard FX by Korg in a tube (with a twist) amp with circuit-modeling. 32 presets available with any/several amp model-FX chains and I defy you to need more than 32 "sounds" for any live gig. Are the onboard FX as good as stompboxes? Probably not in some cases but definitely good enough for the audiences you'll be playing to. You will not have to reach down and adjust your delay for different tunes just punch up another preset.

I liked the simplicity and foolproofness of this arrangement so much that I retired my combo and bought two heads on ebay to gig with. My only external pedals are a crybaby and sometimes an EQ in the loop...well, and a talkbox but that's not a pedal at all.

These amps had some issues but nothing that would break the bank to fix. They were over-priced to start with considering the whole amp-modeling stigma but in my opinion are under-appreciated. They are discontinued now but should be readily available on ebay. There is also a decent website/forum with preset suggestions and a dedicated following.

It may not work for you but I found that pedalboard mania was better left to the pros with touring guitar techs and that for the audiences we weekend warriors play for the simplest approach was best. Given that the Valvetronix tone compromise was not really a compromise at all - they sound good - it was a no brainer.

Look 'em up.


lou

 

[ggunn]

Yes I plan to use my the effects for both live and studio work.

I would hope that in the studio you would only play through the boxes that you plan to use in the song you are recording.

 

[Mikeyprs]

I thought I had mentioned what amp im using but after reading through everything it turned out I hadn't LOL The amp I'm using however is a Marshall AVT50hx Head paired with the AVT412B Cab which i run clean due to the stompboxes.

I also have a Marshall MG100DFX combo amp (currently in the shop cause the fan has packed up on me grrr) which I have used for live gigs back in the college days. Since getting the amp head and cab for my 21st its been my main amp..its just such a killer amp imo. the combo amp has become a practise amp for the other guitarists I jam with.

1a) Yes

2a) + 5A) Yes, but I've had plenty of practise with the tap dancing xD

3A) + 4A) Yes but I would only record what I can realistically do live

 

[Mikeyprs]

I have a Myspace page for the originals band Which has 2 recordings I had done using the pedalboard in the first post in that order.

I had recorded the guitar parts direct from the pedal board into the guitar jack port of my Tascam 2488 because I didn't know till recently that the amp has a D.I port on it which meant I can record the amp without using a mic. (altho i have 2 sm57's somewhere.. just no boomstands).

The drum parts were written out on GP ( I use it to write out all my ideas on) exported the midi file which was imported into Fruity loops which had the EZdrummer/DKFH plug-in.

I know its not the best drum sound but hey its midi.. not gonna be anywhere as good as a real kit but its gives you an idea >.<

I am in the process of re-recording the two songs (and more) now that I am armed in the knowledge about my amp's DI port.

heres the link > www.myspace.com/crypticcarnageuk

The two songs are "friendly betrayal" and "Bringer of your end" (both working titles) -0

Neither have lyrics because there isn't a vocalist as yet

 

[cephus]

Just my 2-cents:

I think it sounds like ass to put flanger/chorus/phasor after distortion. Per the hendrix/evh precedent, you want to grit up the modulated sound and not modulate the grit. In the 80s i was modulating the grit and I hate my recordings from back then.

 

[ocnor]

Just my 2-cents:

I think it sounds like ass to put flanger/chorus/phasor after distortion. Per the hendrix/evh precedent, you want to grit up the modulated sound and not modulate the grit. In the 80s i was modulating the grit and I hate my recordings from back then.

I've always found the exact opposite to be true. If you run the FX before the distortion it becomes muddy and indistinct. The reason that Hendrix/VH got away with it is because they used clean-ish amps compared to modern amps with more complex gain staging in the preamp sections. The extra gain produced by the FX was helpful in overdriving those vintage tube amps. The OP is using solid state amps which sound like total ass if you try to overdrive them. So in his case running the FX in the loop would yield the best result. Especially the noise reduction becase it can then eliminate noise from the distorion pedals as well as any noise from the preamp section of the amp.

 

[Mikeyprs]

ok cool, thanks for the suggestions people

I shall try it either way round and see which i like the sound of best

I shall post pictures of the different signal paths I have tried out once I'm done.

In the mean time - what power supplies do you guys use?

Just something as simple as a DC/AC type adapters or one of the many all in one solutions i.e power bank, burkey flatliner etc etc

Im also thinking of buying some of the 'George L' or 'planet waves' solderless cable and connector stuff and creating my own patch leads.

Altho the big chunky coloured ones I use are good but as you could see in the last pic they make it all look very untidy (considering its just on my bedroom floor atm).

All your tips and suggestions so far have been really helpful - Thank You

 

[cephus]

I've always found the exact opposite to be true. If you run the FX before the distortion it becomes muddy and indistinct.

Yeah, I guess that's what I like about it. It sounds artificial when your intact tone is warbled versus the warbling being a component of the tone.

 

[ocnor]

Yeah, I guess that's what I like about it. It sounds artificial when your intact tone is warbled versus the warbling being a component of the tone.

That's totally contradictory to logic. How can the intact tone sound artificial? When you muddy up the distortion with effects is when it sounds artificial because the amps natural characteristics become degraded.

 

[Lt. Bob]

my thoughts:

I way prefer the sound of stomboxes to multifx .......

I have little problem hitting the pedals I need ..... the tap dance is like anything else in music ............... practice


You could get one of those pedal switching systems and be able to hit combinations of pedals with a single button and then leave ALL your pedals in a drawer


I'd not be very interested in a Valvetronix ...... it's just a modeler and I don't care for modelers plus, if I want a modeler I have a bunch of them that I bought as I was learning that I don't care for modelers

 

[Lt. Bob]

I've always found the exact opposite to be true. If you run the FX before the distortion it becomes muddy and indistinct. .

agreed.

The easiest way to see this is with delay.
A delay was originally intended to replicate the echos and reverbs you get in a large room or space with natural echo. The echo in real life would always come last since the room can't react until the sound comes out of the speakers and is echo'd.

On my pedal boards all the mod devices always come last.

I have no opinion on compression since I hate and loath it.

 

[Lt. Bob]

hmmm . can't delete duplicate posts?

That's dumb.

 

[Mikeyprs]

my thoughts:

I way prefer the sound of stomboxes to multifx .......

I have little problem hitting the pedals I need ..... the tap dance is like anything else in music ............... practice


You could get one of those pedal switching systems and be able to hit combinations of pedals with a single button and then leave ALL your pedals in a drawer

I totally agree with the first two parts of this post. I've always felt single effects give a better sound because each pedal is only producing one effect (no shit), yet multifx need some processing (of god knows how many effects) before it even creates the desired effect and then reach the amp (if im not mistaken) even if this takes some milliseconds i think it just degrades the tone. but one could argue that with all the cable between my pedals would or could degrad my tone in that i agree its a possibility. but end of it all I feel it sounds better then a multifx processor imo.

The pedal switching system sounds like a good idea. because i would like to try to minimise whats on the floor in front of me (whilsts performing) but still use my single effects. I was considering or toying with the vision of building or buying a rack case for my amp head and having some of the effects that are permanently on i.e Eq, compressor, noise suppressor and delay/verb (possibly a tuner too) and run through the effects loop whilst the wah, whammy, OD, dist and modulation effects direct in the front of the amp. or which ever way i decide to set my single path up.

Again thanks for all your comments and suggestions guys - it has all been a real help, im still going through the motions of completely trying all the ways i could set my signal chain before i commit it to a board of some description but hey thats the fun part right??

Mikeyprs

 

[cephus]

That's totally contradictory to logic. How can the intact tone sound artificial? When you muddy up the distortion with effects is when it sounds artificial because the amps natural characteristics become degraded.

Why do you consider applying signal treatment before the gain stage as "degraded". would wah also be considered degradation?

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

I'd not be very interested in a Valvetronix ...... it's just a modeler and I don't care for modelers...

It's not a modeler like you are thinking. Way, way better than a POD. The FX section is Korg and is probably digital algorithms as opposed to circuitry - I don't really know. The amp "modeling" section is quite similar to the Mark V in that it reroutes the signal through various bits including a pre-amp tube. Final output is SS.

Again it is not the be-all, end-all of amps but for club gigging it's very handy and sounds surprisingly good. Having up to 32 presets available through footswitch makes life on stage sooo easy.


lou

 

[Lt. Bob]

It's not a modeler like you are thinking. Way, way better than a POD. The FX section is Korg and is probably digital algorithms as opposed to circuitry - I don't really know. The amp "modeling" section is quite similar to the Mark V in that it reroutes the signal through various bits including a pre-amp tube. Final output is SS.

Again it is not the be-all, end-all of amps but for club gigging it's very handy and sounds surprisingly good. Having up to 32 presets available through footswitch makes life on stage sooo easy.


lou

yeah, I'm actually quite familiar with them.
And they are pretty nice little amps ....... one thing they use the tube for is as a psuedo-power amp tube.
The Valvetronix pedal system they make is the same system and it is a superior sounding modeler, IMO. WAY better than a POD but my Rocktron Utopia is also WAY better than a POD.
Ultimately they're still a modeler, even if a quite good one, and have the same issues that all modelers have even if they've minimized them.

They're really not the same as a Mark V btw. A V actually has relays that shunt the path to an actual circuit with actual amp sized resistors and such while the Valvetronics is digital and virtually shunts the path to a virtually different circuit. A synthesis done digitally of an actual physical/electronic process.

 

[ocnor]

Why do you consider applying signal treatment before the gain stage as "degraded". would wah also be considered degradation?

Well a wah is a filter based effect not a time based effect. So applying a signal treatment such as a wah , EQ , compressor , or OD/Dist is completely different than applying a flanger , chorus , phase shifter , or delay.

 

[ggunn]

I'd not be very interested in a Valvetronix ...... it's just a modeler and I don't care for modelers plus, if I want a modeler I have a bunch of them that I bought as I was learning that I don't care for modelers

Except for one thing - a friend of mine has a Valvetronix, and the on board envelope filter has the smoothest decaying, Jerry-like response I have heard since Estimated Prophet. I have had several of them and not one of them has sounded like that. I can't afford a Mutron. :^(

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

They're really not the same as a Mark V btw. A V actually has relays that shunt the path to an actual circuit with actual amp sized resistors and such...

Oh yes I know! And very well too. I guess I meant that the Vox uses a similar concept. My manual says the actual physical circuit is rearranged but I'm not sure how they accomplish it.

I really don't want to spam the things and the original blue face are long since discontinued anyway. (IMO the chrome face new version sucks out loud.) I just found them to be the perfect solution for gigging - but I always had two with me.


lou