I am glad you like your v55. Every unit has its use. I just never pretended that it was osmehting that absolutely outperfomed all the others like Edan said. Basically, he is full of shit. Sure some people like them, some hate them. This is also the guy though that swears by Behringer. The good news however is that because they are not all that coveted they can still be found very cheaply which definately increases their purchasability. I still wish on occasion that I had my Microverb for a single preset on it... the same goes for my Quadraverb 2. Every piece of gear has its use.
Looking for a reverb unit and/or multi effect box
- Thread starter Magnum Pi
- Start date
I think I have three pieces of Behringer gear, a compressor that works great and has for the past seven years, a bass amp that sounds fine and the V-Verb which sounds GREAT. I've tried most of today's lower and mid priced all-in-ones and the V-55 is better sounding, 4-in, 4-outs, has more routing options, has more editing options and still out specs and is built better than most. The cheapest units by the big names don't compare in sound or build quality imo. I would compare the V-55 to most mid priced units costing in the $400 range. The ONLY truly cheap unit that compares is, you guessed it, the Behringer V-Verb. There is nothing and I mean nothing for $150.00 out there that comes close to it. The knobs are flimsy, but the sound is great. V-55's are going for between $150 and $250 on ebay, Actually only the most recent auction went for $150. The last few I tracked over the past couple of months or so sold for over $200 and for that price there is nothing new that can touch it.
Seeker of Rock
Let’s Go Brandon!
EDAN said:
Low end unit? Shit, I'll put my JW modded LXP-15 up against your Sony any day.
Seeker of Rock
Let’s Go Brandon!
But by no means what I would call in the 'low end' category, though. $150 for the mod, $200+ for the unit if I remember correctly.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
Just for a reality check, anything under $1,000 or so is "budget", "mid priced" starts at around $1,500 and goes to $3,000 or so, and high end is roughly from $3,500 and up. Roughly speaking, if you look at the full range of what's available on the marketplace. So a "$500 mid priced reverb" doesn't really exist.
It also doesn't matter how good the V77 is when talking about the V55. Those are two different boxes that were named the same for marketing reasons.
For reverb under $500 I would say go for a Kurzweil Rumour, or TC M-One XL. The Rumour would be my first choice though.
It also doesn't matter how good the V77 is when talking about the V55. Those are two different boxes that were named the same for marketing reasons.
For reverb under $500 I would say go for a Kurzweil Rumour, or TC M-One XL. The Rumour would be my first choice though.
Seeker of Rock
Let’s Go Brandon!
Fair enough Sonic, but I don't think that is absolute, nor am I implying you meant it to be. I've seen some PCM91s used going for a budget price of $800, but new they would be in the "mid" range.
Also keep in mind, it is probably a bit relative...relative to what the user group is. I would say a good number of people like myself in this forum are, as the name would suggest, home recording or smaller recording enthusiasts. What my qualify as a good setup here may be considered inferior for some larger setups, as well as how intensely and thoroughly someone is going to be able to use and apply the effect, recorder, mic, etc.
Also keep in mind, it is probably a bit relative...relative to what the user group is. I would say a good number of people like myself in this forum are, as the name would suggest, home recording or smaller recording enthusiasts. What my qualify as a good setup here may be considered inferior for some larger setups, as well as how intensely and thoroughly someone is going to be able to use and apply the effect, recorder, mic, etc.
Seeker of Rock
Let’s Go Brandon!
OT, but I am still looking before I buy my next reverb unit, mid-priced or used mid/high. The Lexicon 300L... Has anyone used the LARC with that or a 480? It seems simple enough that it may be easier to program than one of the hands-on display boxes. Kind of like the old 200, very hands on it seems from the looks of it. Hmmm, I thought I saw some 300s selling for under $2000 recently. Just curious about the user-friendliness of the LARC as opposed to say the 300.
Sorry Magnum Pi, I guess this is maybe a little off topic...you were looking for choices/recommendations, and I think there have been a few along the way. I haven't heard much about the MX200. Anybody have opinions on this one?
Sorry Magnum Pi, I guess this is maybe a little off topic...you were looking for choices/recommendations, and I think there have been a few along the way. I haven't heard much about the MX200. Anybody have opinions on this one?
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
I'm referring to new "street" prices, not used prices.
SonicAlbert said:
Just for a REAL reality check, like it or not, spin it or not the fact is that most people don't consider A $1,500 effects a mid priced unit and many of the most highly acclaimed, in every pro studio type big name effect units sell new for less. Generally when people out here talk about a budget unit the ones brought up are often in the $175-$350 range as evidence in this thread.
People don't consider a BMW 3 serious at around $45,000 a mid-priced car just because you can buy a new car for 1.5 million (Bugatti), or buy a Rolls for $350,000, you can also buy a Ferrari for $150,000, you can buy a Porche for $65,000 and a Vette for around $50,000 .. they are all high end cars. Come on, don't nit pick and be all naive like.
BTW, The V55 uses some of the same algos as the V77 and has the same two engines and chip. Next time you try to tech me something, at least know more than me about it
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
EDAN said:
Just trying to put the terms in perspective. "Mid priced" was mentioned, but most of the units under discussion were in fact budget range. It is an important distinction to make.
The reason it is important is that a gear purchaser should have reasonable expectations regarding the performance of any particular unit he or she buys. To expect high or mid quality performance of budget gear is not reasonable, just like a person shouldn't expect budget performance out of expensive gear.
So to refer to budget gear as mid priced gear is misleading and could result in an unwary buyer expecting more performance from the gear than it in fact was designed to perform.
Whether "most" people consider $1,500 to be mid priced or not doesn't change the fact that it *is* the mid street price (lower mid actually) of the market for new units.
Seeker of Rock
Let’s Go Brandon!
I hear what you're saying Sonic, and I probably agree in the big picture of things. I say probably because I haven't been around a 480 and what's the other one, 960? Therefore I can't honestly say but I can form a reasonable opinion that those are probably the high end units in terms of quality (maybe not always hand-in-hand with price on every piece of equipment ever made, but I would assume that it's a general rule of thumb).
I guess maybe as far as the low/mid/high scale that a lot of posters are referring to here, especially the newer additions to the bbs and just starting out, are probably thinking the $2000 Avalons and PCMs are top of the line in the small, not-producing-A-List-movie-soundtracks, or home recording setup (and that's not a disrepsect to them/us, because I fall in that category too
). I think it is a good reality check as you said, I just don't think a lot of people are quite in that budget/quality range here. For example, I would love to purchase a 300 instead of the PCM91 I plan to, if it were just for audio quality alone. But if the main difference between the two is features and programming capabilities, I will probably go for the PCM, because those aren't as important to me as what the unit sounds like (and I'm sure a lot of the units are how you can make them sound) out of the box with a little novice level tweaking, and maybe some extra to grow into as I get more comfortable with altering parameters. With preamps I believe the difference in price categories is the actual differnces in audio/component/design quality. Is this the same for reverb, generally speaking, or is it more 'what you can get it to do'?
Sorry for the book
I guess maybe as far as the low/mid/high scale that a lot of posters are referring to here, especially the newer additions to the bbs and just starting out, are probably thinking the $2000 Avalons and PCMs are top of the line in the small, not-producing-A-List-movie-soundtracks, or home recording setup (and that's not a disrepsect to them/us, because I fall in that category too
). I think it is a good reality check as you said, I just don't think a lot of people are quite in that budget/quality range here. For example, I would love to purchase a 300 instead of the PCM91 I plan to, if it were just for audio quality alone. But if the main difference between the two is features and programming capabilities, I will probably go for the PCM, because those aren't as important to me as what the unit sounds like (and I'm sure a lot of the units are how you can make them sound) out of the box with a little novice level tweaking, and maybe some extra to grow into as I get more comfortable with altering parameters. With preamps I believe the difference in price categories is the actual differnces in audio/component/design quality. Is this the same for reverb, generally speaking, or is it more 'what you can get it to do'?Sorry for the book
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
Seeker of Rock said:
I agree about the preamps, you get what you pay for with very few exceptions.
However, with reverbs I don't think it is quite so cut and dried. I recently bought an Eventide Princeton 2016, and the whole point of the unit is its' sound and simplicity of programming. One physical control per parameter. So you pay more for the sound but you actually have far less programming parameters than budget units costing far less.
On the other hand, some of the top of the line Eventide units have *tons* of parameters, as do the high end-y TC and Lexicon units. My Kurzweil KSP8 also has pages and pages of parameters to tweak. So in those cases you get more of the sound *and* the programming in the mid to high end units.
The 480 is a beautiful sounding unit. However, I own a PCM-91 and while it is not up to the level of the 480 it is still a very nice sounding unit in my opinion. Worth having, definitely. I use it every single mix. The programming itself is easier on the 480 due to the Larc and the 300 due to the bigger screen. Programming the 91 and 81 are not my favorite experience, but once you get the hang of them it's really not an issue.
Albert.
Fact is, and I'll say it again, what you consider mid-priced units, include some of the most respected, used and loved units that adorn many a pro (as in A-list) studios around the world. You said: "To expect high or mid quality performance of budget gear is not reasonable" Expect is one thing, the reality is often a different. Pick up Mix or soundonsound and read some reviews. I own a V-Verb that I use right along side my V77 and there is nothing cheap sounding or unprofessional sounding about it. BTW, it was the soundonsound review, along with techmag review that prompted me to pick the V-Verb up for a lousy $150.00 bucks and the thing will compete with any mid-priced unit out there, you might not like it as much, but it's a matter of taste, not sound quality.
As Paul White himself said of the V-Verb
"it manages to deliver surprisingly good-quality reverb for a bargain-basement UK price. It can certainly hold its own against much more expensive competitors, If you aspire to the best, but don't have the budget, the REV2496 is one of life's better compromises!
You need to get over the price because it's no longer the factor in relation to what you get. There are people out here, people who's credentials we all know who have and do often recommend cheap gear and compare it with or even favor it over higher priced "name" gear. Things change, technology advances and prices come down. If Dot didn't reveal the telefunken mic was the same as the Apex mic only $1,200 more, people would be praising that mic instead of saying it sounds like crap. It's all in the head, well not all, but a lot of it.
Fact is, and I'll say it again, what you consider mid-priced units, include some of the most respected, used and loved units that adorn many a pro (as in A-list) studios around the world. You said: "To expect high or mid quality performance of budget gear is not reasonable" Expect is one thing, the reality is often a different. Pick up Mix or soundonsound and read some reviews. I own a V-Verb that I use right along side my V77 and there is nothing cheap sounding or unprofessional sounding about it. BTW, it was the soundonsound review, along with techmag review that prompted me to pick the V-Verb up for a lousy $150.00 bucks and the thing will compete with any mid-priced unit out there, you might not like it as much, but it's a matter of taste, not sound quality.
As Paul White himself said of the V-Verb
"it manages to deliver surprisingly good-quality reverb for a bargain-basement UK price. It can certainly hold its own against much more expensive competitors, If you aspire to the best, but don't have the budget, the REV2496 is one of life's better compromises!
You need to get over the price because it's no longer the factor in relation to what you get. There are people out here, people who's credentials we all know who have and do often recommend cheap gear and compare it with or even favor it over higher priced "name" gear. Things change, technology advances and prices come down. If Dot didn't reveal the telefunken mic was the same as the Apex mic only $1,200 more, people would be praising that mic instead of saying it sounds like crap. It's all in the head, well not all, but a lot of it.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
I really, really don't care what a Sound on Sound review says. Quoting reviews or endorsements do absolutely nothing for me, and it's ridiculous to be using those as supporting arguments to your point. Do you need Paul White to like the V-Verb to feel good about owning it?
I'm over price, totally over price. If I could get cheap gear that sounded as good as the pricier stuff, don't you think I would do it? Of course I would.
The fact of the matter is, I've bought *a lot* of gear over the years. I've bought the whole range, from budget to expensive. There is a difference in sound quality, that's just the way it is and it is usually something you can easily hear.
That's not to say that just because it is expensive one should like it, or that it will be right for any particular studio. I've sent back and sold some pretty great gear, like the Manley Vari-Mu and the Empirical Labs Fatso for example--great sounding gear that just didn't do it for me personally. But there was absolutely no question in my mind about the superior sound and build quality of those units.
I haven't used the V-Verb, but your praise of it has got me a little bit interested. Although, I have read some negative comments on it as well. The thing is that I hesitate to try it out when Behringer has let me down so many times in the past.
But to get back to the original question: there are some great sounding units you can get in the $150-300 price range these days. Most of them have been covered, but I would again suggest the TC M-One XL or Kurzweil Rumour.
I'm over price, totally over price. If I could get cheap gear that sounded as good as the pricier stuff, don't you think I would do it? Of course I would.
The fact of the matter is, I've bought *a lot* of gear over the years. I've bought the whole range, from budget to expensive. There is a difference in sound quality, that's just the way it is and it is usually something you can easily hear.
That's not to say that just because it is expensive one should like it, or that it will be right for any particular studio. I've sent back and sold some pretty great gear, like the Manley Vari-Mu and the Empirical Labs Fatso for example--great sounding gear that just didn't do it for me personally. But there was absolutely no question in my mind about the superior sound and build quality of those units.
I haven't used the V-Verb, but your praise of it has got me a little bit interested. Although, I have read some negative comments on it as well. The thing is that I hesitate to try it out when Behringer has let me down so many times in the past.
But to get back to the original question: there are some great sounding units you can get in the $150-300 price range these days. Most of them have been covered, but I would again suggest the TC M-One XL or Kurzweil Rumour.
My own experience is that equipment reviews in "for profit" publications generally run from Incredible (for the price) all the way up to just plain Incredible (but pricey)... These guys make there money selling advertising to the same companies whose products they review.
Honestly... when's the last time you read a review where the auther came out and said a product just plain "sucked"... They focus on the strengths, and bury the weaknesses... dancing around the real quality of the unit. You gotta take it with a grain of salt...
Honestly... when's the last time you read a review where the auther came out and said a product just plain "sucked"... They focus on the strengths, and bury the weaknesses... dancing around the real quality of the unit. You gotta take it with a grain of salt...
cool lots of very strong opinions , always makes for interesting reading 
I use the Lexicon MX200 , it also works as a VST plugin for cubase etc through a USB interface and it sounds great , i use it all the time
http://www.lexiconpro.com/ProductIndex.aspx?ProductID=12
can also use midi to time the effects too
and its pretty cheap too
anodized blue rack , even cooler looking than the red fostex mr-8
I use the Lexicon MX200 , it also works as a VST plugin for cubase etc through a USB interface and it sounds great , i use it all the time
http://www.lexiconpro.com/ProductIndex.aspx?ProductID=12
can also use midi to time the effects too
and its pretty cheap too
anodized blue rack , even cooler looking than the red fostex mr-8
SonicAlbert said:
It's not ridiculous at all, what's wrong with researching a product and learning as much about it as you can before you decide if you'd like to shell out for it? It's not ridiculous, not when the person doing the review is a highly respected professional who happens to know a heck of a lot more than I do. Sound on Sound do extremely indepth time consuming reviews and often included in their reviews is someone elses take on the same product, a mini review if you will as a side-bar, sometimes in contrast to the main review. Unlike some I don't consider every mag or website reviewer to have an agenda or be less than honest simply because the company who's piece of gear they are reviewing might adverties in their magazine. If that's the case than never has there been an honest review by anyone. Ever read a car review? Just to get a take on a car you are interested in? All those car makers pay big bucks to adverties in those same car mags. I see plenty of less than glowing reviews of cars. That being said, I had heard good things about the V-Verb and in my research came across several reviews, all very good and figured for a buck and a half what do I have to lose? I was very surprised as none of the other truly low end units I used or owned came close to my V-55 and V-77 the V-Verb does. Don't believe it, after all, you yourself said you never tried it so your opinion really counts.
SonicAlbert said:
At $500 the Rumour would be the only one I MIGHT recommend besides the V-55, the others mentioned simply aren't in the same class, imo. But, my advice, pick up the V-Verb before you go pay another $350 for a unit that is no better overall. And after all why are you getting so uppity over one mans opinion?
Oh and one more thing. I find it very funny and telling when some of the same people using higher end gear and pretending to be "in the know" produce very average home demo sounding recordings that certainly don't reflect what the gear their using is capable of. I'd be happy to post a song I've done showing what can be done with cheap and semi cheap gear, including my V-55 and V-Verb which sound a hell of a lot better than what I'm hearing from some people going off at the mouth about high end gear.
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