Llarion at the controls...

  • Thread starter Thread starter RAMI
  • Start date Start date
Excellent thread. It's a highly effective scenario to have someone submit their own music for remix by someone else, have both mixes posted for comparison, and then be able read the reactions of the composer (Rami, who is closest to the song, of course) to the remix. Then hear what the remixer did to make it better. It's real 'fly on the studio wall' stuff, and highly educational.

Thanks.

PS: It will be even more effective when Soundclick decides to start working, so I can listen to Rami's original mix for comparison.
 
I think it's working now, Robin, I just clicked it and it worked. But you never know with those guys, might die again any second.
 
I need a houseboat and I need a plane
I need a Butler and a trip to Spain
I need everything the world owes me
I tell that to myself and I agree

(Alice Cooper)
 
RAMI said:
I need a houseboat and I need a plane
I need a Butler and a trip to Spain
I need everything the world owes me
I tell that to myself and I agree

(Alice Cooper)
Click to expand...
Maybe so, but a web server is AFFORDABLE. :)
 
Yeah, but at Soundclick, server problems aside...My music get alot more hits than it would if I was hosting my own, no?
 
Here comes Snakedog swooping in to steal all of Llarion's secrets :p Excellent info though, thank you very much for sharing.
 
RAMI said:
Yeah, but at Soundclick, server problems aside...My music get alot more hits than it would if I was hosting my own, no?
Click to expand...

It's all about promotion...
 
RAMI said:
I need a houseboat and I need a plane
I need a Butler and a trip to Spain
I need everything the world owes me
I tell that to myself and I agree

(Alice Cooper)
Click to expand...

You're just caught in a dream, aren't you? :)

Excellent job by both of you!
 
SnakeDog5050 said:
Here comes Snakedog swooping in to steal all of Llarion's secrets :p Excellent info though, thank you very much for sharing.
Click to expand...

You're quite welcome. Look, I'm no expert; there's tons of guys in this forum that have many many more years experience and education in the area than I; I just have an experienced ear, and I've simply discovered ways to come up with a solid, tight product. I'm happy to share what I've learned along the way, but by no means is it gospel; because each musical style has its on demands in terms of production, and everyone has differing tastes in production, so there's no single right or wrong way.

I favor slicker, glossier production; if you listen to my tuns, you'll know where I land. But, to state it, the production values that Sting, Steely Dan, Supertramp, James Taylor, Toto, and anything on the DMP label favor is what I shoot for. But that's not the only valid approach, knwo what I mean?

Anyway, I'm happy to share. Ask away..
 
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The thing that bothers me is that it seems that if I want to have access to the right eq's, effects, etc...I'll eventually have to start recording into my PC or at least bringing individual tracks into my PC. I love working with a stand alone unit. I love not having to use a fricking mouse to turn things up and down or to move an eq band. But because of that, I'm limited to the 3 band eq's on my TASCAM (unless I bounce, eq, bounce, eq again, etc...). Besides that, I would need a new Sound card and a lot more meory in my computer. I tried mixing a song in my PC a few months ago and as soon as I had 3 tracks playing at the same time, the latency was about a week and a half. Once I added reverb, the music ended up in a different time zone.

Luckily, my taste in music and the productions I like are alot more raw and less "BIG" (for lack of a better word). I totally appreciate the polished-ness of Supertramp, Steely Dan, Yes, etc...But that doesn't move me as much as hearing the mistakes on a Zep album, or the slightly shaky harmonies of a Red Hot Chili Peppers track, or what sounds like three guys jamming in a room in front of one or 2 mics like the "Still ALive and Well" album etc..So, while I wish I had access to making whatever would allow me to make nice, polished productions, I'm scared I would lose that intimacy and imperfection that I think rock and roll really is. That's my excuse and I'm sticking with it. :D
 
Rami, stick with what works for you. What Llarion did, was show you a different side to your music. His vision of it is only a slight variation of the original, and just had some of his thoughts, and likes in it. It's very well done, in both mixes, and as with many songs, could be done 100 different ways, by 100 different people. And all of them could be good. If you can get your vicion from your brain, all the way to recorded media, the way you want, then you have it down. Phil's idea should just show you what other sounds are possible with what you have done, and maybe give you some ideas for future use.
Phil, nice sounding mix. Polished, but not overly so. You didn't take away the harder edges, just changed it a bit. Very good sounds.
Ed
 
Llarion, yeah I dig. With everything people say about a mix and everything I compare a mix to, there's always a certian personal style I'm going for at the same time. Just my preferences in music. As far as your secrets go, in recording the amount of knowledge you can gain just seems endless. I'm learning all the time and every little piece of info might be something that works better and I might end up using. It's interesting to me that a mix I made 3 months ago that sounded "perfect" and "final" got blown away with ease with a new mix I made the other day, just from what I've learned here and in the last few months. Like Rami's track, I didn't think it could sound any better, then BOOM I hear a better version.

Rami, I'm with you man. I'd love to use the style you do now. All I have is low end computer equipment though. I appreciate it and think it's awesome I have the oppurtunity to record decent music, but at the same time it's enough to drive me nuts sometimes. There's nothing worse than playing out a 5 minute guitar part that you just thought you nailed, then you realize the computer stopped recording at 1 minute because it was out of memory or something. Or the static that starts to pick up to keep 0 latency as songs get larger with more effects/tracks. It's a pain to mix with that or play with that (it disappears at mixdown) Then there's windows of course. The system is unstable and some nights just turn into fixing it.
Alright, my rant is over. I do love recording though! But can hate the computer sometimes. That's my 2 cents about computer recording. I say stick to your guns, or at least get decent computer equipment.
 
RAMI said:
The thing that bothers me is that it seems that if I want to have access to the right eq's, effects, etc...I'll eventually have to start recording into my PC or at least bringing individual tracks into my PC. I love working with a stand alone unit... Luckily, my taste in music and the productions I like are alot more raw and less "BIG" (for lack of a better word). I totally appreciate the polished-ness of Supertramp, Steely Dan, Yes, etc...But that doesn't move me as much as hearing the mistakes on a Zep album, or the slightly shaky harmonies of a Red Hot Chili Peppers track, or what sounds like three guys jamming in a room in front of one or 2 mics like the "Still ALive and Well" album etc..So, while I wish I had access to making whatever would allow me to make nice, polished productions, I'm scared I would lose that intimacy and imperfection that I think rock and roll really is. That's my excuse and I'm sticking with it. :D
Click to expand...
I think you're very smart... to find a way of working that feels right and sticking to it. :cool: The production process shouldn't hinder the creativity and vibe of the performance - what works for one might not for another. Either way, so many of us doing home recording spend way too much time wrestling with computers and complex gear and plugins, and it’s so easy to end up with overproduced music that has the personality sucked out of it. :eek:

BTW, I though both Phil and your mixes were excellent. :) My own personal bias is that I think that the best investment anybody can make who's doing music that’s "mic'd live in the room" is the audio front end and room acoustics. There are many ways to mix good quality tracks.

Tim
 
Timothy Lawler said:
The production process shouldn't hinder the creativity and vibe of the performance -
Click to expand...

Tim, that's exactly what I was trying to get at above. Sometimes it feels like a fight with the computer rather than having fun recording. I can't help but think that does hinder the creativity in ways. When I have ideas I'd love to just be able to go in and try them out, not battle the machine.

Plus as far as computer vs. tascam style recording goes, to me it's like those new computer slot machines with the touch button... it was always more fun to physically pull the handle :D
 
RAMI said:
The thing that bothers me is that it seems that if I want to have access to the right eq's, effects, etc...I'll eventually have to start recording into my PC or at least bringing individual tracks into my PC. I love working with a stand alone unit. I love not having to use a fricking mouse to turn things up and down or to move an eq band. But because of that, I'm limited to the 3 band eq's on my TASCAM (unless I bounce, eq, bounce, eq again, etc...). Besides that, I would need a new Sound card and a lot more meory in my computer. I tried mixing a song in my PC a few months ago and as soon as I had 3 tracks playing at the same time, the latency was about a week and a half. Once I added reverb, the music ended up in a different time zone.

Luckily, my taste in music and the productions I like are alot more raw and less "BIG" (for lack of a better word). I totally appreciate the polished-ness of Supertramp, Steely Dan, Yes, etc...But that doesn't move me as much as hearing the mistakes on a Zep album, or the slightly shaky harmonies of a Red Hot Chili Peppers track, or what sounds like three guys jamming in a room in front of one or 2 mics like the "Still ALive and Well" album etc..So, while I wish I had access to making whatever would allow me to make nice, polished productions, I'm scared I would lose that intimacy and imperfection that I think rock and roll really is. That's my excuse and I'm sticking with it. :D
Click to expand...

You're very shrewd. And that's why I showed restrained on your song, I know you like it open and honest. SOmeone said in another post that spending the money on good mics and room acoustics is the best thing for someone that likes that sound, and that is ABSOLUTELY correct. I'm the opposite, all my stuff is DI, so I could care a hoot about room acoustics. I spend the money on the backside to massage what I acquire...

It took me awhile to get used to mixing in the PC, (I use a Korg D1600 for acquisition, at least for a couple more weeks), but the freedom and flexibility in mixing give you the ability to do more than two hands can do in realtime on a mixdown...
 
You totally respected the spirit of my music, and to me, THAT's the sign of someone who's about the song, not about himself.
 
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