Lively Recordings

[zuluEars]

okay so,
ive been recording for a while now, 2 years maybe?
i have a decent line up of recording gear

Presonus - Firestudio Project,
- Studio Channel
(aswell as hp4 headphone amp and fader port, not relevant here though)

some decent mics, sm57, carillon axis70 (lovely newly released ribbon mic - warm!), se electronics se2200a condensor,

waves murcury plugins, cubase sx3

heres my dilemma.
im recording hardcore, oldschool hardcore, less gain, more mids on the guitars etc.
i can get some pretty decent sounds,though i have to work for it with my line6 spider II (shutup!)
my biggest problem is, though my recordings sound alone by themselves, when you compare them to what im aiming for (http://www.myspace.com/defeater - listen to 'the red white and blues') they sound dull as all hell, wheras the recordings in that link soundlively and energetic.

i know generally you'll use reverb to make something sit back in a mix, and if you use to much itll turn the mix to mush, but it sounds like theyre using shitloads on the vocals and drums, but every track is clearly defined and separated.

HELP?!

 

[TheChikenMaster]

Do you mean lively as in energetic? A lot of it has to do with how you record and play the music.

 

[zuluEars]

when i say lively i mean the sound of the instrument, not the performance,
the track i linked is the best description of what i mean

 

[TheChikenMaster]

Mixing is a balancing act.

 

[gehauser]

but every track is clearly defined and separated.

HELP?!

Have you tried using EQ to carve out a frequency realm for each individual track/instrument? This can really separate and define each track. It only takes a couple dB boost or rolloff at the right frequencies for each instrument. Use subtractive EQ where possible.

 

[gcapel]

1) Are you overdubing or layering the rythm guitar parts?

2) Are you overcrowding a particular place in the stereo field (center pos maybe)?

3) Careful boosting freq.

 

[zuluEars]

i thought itd be in the mix process.

i havent really tried eq, i dont really know where to start?
not everything is dead center no, theres a decent amount of separation/spread
generally i do 2 tracks of each guitar part, generally giving me 4 track of guitar at any one time - any more than that and it sounds shit for me....

 

[Disease8]

Eq eq eq eq
mic placement
PERFORMANCE

Forget reverb focus on these things... Then reverb..

 

[Disease8]

i thought itd be in the mix process.

i havent really tried eq, i dont really know where to start?
not everything is dead center no, theres a decent amount of separation/spread
generally i do 2 tracks of each guitar part, generally giving me 4 track of guitar at any one time - any more than that and it sounds shit for me....

Dude you have to use the EQ's man.. Only way to "Equalize" the sound, and bring out the unique "character" and "liveliness" of you recordings.. Just spend a bit of time fiddling and trying to isolate nice sounds and nasty ones in the recordings.. even them out, bring the nice ones forward...

 

[mattr]

Get rid of the Line6, and then we can begin to talk...

 

[Chibi Nappa]

i thought itd be in the mix process.

Mixing can definitely improve a track. But no. "Lively" comes in the recording process. If it is not lively before the mix even starts, the best you can hope for is some sort of artificial pod-people "lively" impersonation from various mix techniques.

Aside from nailing the performance, small changes in guitar tone and mic position are critical before recording. It all has to fit with everything else, so you better have your best speakers with you to check everything as you do it.

 

[gcapel]

Get rid of the Line6, and then we can begin to talk...

this would be a start. If your solo'ed guitar track sounds like garbage, it will not morph into something magical. Make sure your leaving some head room as far as level and compression goes.

 

[zuluEars]

this would be a start. If your solo'ed guitar track sounds like garbage, it will not morph into something magical. Make sure your leaving some head room as far as level and compression goes.

as i said, i can pull a decent sound, the solo'd guitar sound is good, you just need to work harder to get it with the line6. im saving saving saving for a new amp but i have to make do with what i have.

i've heard to cut the bass on all non bass tracks? guitars/vocals etc. true?

 

[zuluEars]

Eq eq eq eq
mic placement
PERFORMANCE

Forget reverb focus on these things... Then reverb..

thankyou,
any suggestions?
ive been using a '57, 2-3 inches to the left/right of the centre of the cone,
and a carillon axis 70 ribbon mic (can handle high spl) in a similar position, hard agains the grill cloth.
if i go and further back things start to sound distant, any closer to center things get muddy, any closer to rim things get brittle and fizzy.

 

[Disease8]

thankyou,
any suggestions?
ive been using a '57, 2-3 inches to the left/right of the centre of the cone,
and a carillon axis 70 ribbon mic (can handle high spl) in a similar position, hard agains the grill cloth.
if i go and further back things start to sound distant, any closer to center things get muddy, any closer to rim things get brittle and fizzy.

I would probably have one close 3-5 inches, and one further 2-4 foot... But I have mainly used mic placement in live situations and focus more on separation and convenient's more than sound quality. An engineers I worked for used to tell me to point the mic directly at the moving "rim" of the cone, this has worked for me before for micing bass cabs but doesn't always seem to work well for guitar, since working for myself I just point it at the centre of the cone seems more reliable but as I said my experience is limited to live stuff... Sorry..

 

[gcapel]

as i said, i can pull a decent sound, the solo'd guitar sound is good, you just need to work harder to get it with the line6. im saving saving saving for a new amp but i have to make do with what i have.

i've heard to cut the bass on all non bass tracks? guitars/vocals etc. true?

There is no write answer to that. If there is no bass to cut then why cut it? I would try the MP3 clinic. YOu will get some more directional help.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

I would try the MP3 clinic. YOu will get some more directional help.

Definitely. If there's any way for us to hear your tracks, we can probably give you much better feedback.

 

[zuluEars]

thanks for all your help guys ill get a track up soon!
whats a good site for me to put my track on for everyone to listen to it?

 

[TheChikenMaster]

soundclick most people use.

 

[Monkey Allen]

There's a lot of different schools of thought about how to eq different stuff. Generally I would try to eq out most of what is under 40 or 50hz using some kind of gradual high pass filter. I would do this instrument by instrument. Maybe not on a kick drum. If you can get Voxengo SPAN you can have a look at where the bulk of the sound is residing on the frequency spectrum for each instrument. Find the sweet spot for that instrument/ in that kind of song and hone in on it. Cut away whatever seems superfluous. e.g acoustic guitars cover a wide freq range...but I start to high pass around 100hz and also low pass up high somewhere. You do this for all the tracks and you end up finding more space and having more clarity. If you have 6 or 7 or 8 tracks in a project it does add up...all that mud and boom. So cut it out using eq where you can. Things should start sounding better. There's other things you can do like notching out part of an instrument's freq curve where another instrument has it's sweet spot...so that they don't clash as much. Right now I am working, for example, on getting my kick drum to have some presence. It is buried in bass and acoustic guitars. All my tracks are dry right now, but my first move will be to work on eq to provide space.