Live Sound Rig

W

whattaguy

New member
Any suggestions/changes to this setup? Any recommendations to a good crossover for the subs?

This will be my "rough" wish list for our church band.

Our maximum setup would have:

Drums
Djembe
Bass
2 Electrics
2 Acoustic Guitars
Keys
Piano
5 vocalists
Video/Audio
CD
Speaker

24 channels would be enough, but 32 would give us expandability.

Thanks.

Allen & Heath GL2400-32
Item ID: GL2400-32
Qty: 1
Price: 2599.97
View Online: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/rGL2400-32
Buy Now: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/cGL2400-32


Clearsonic A5-6 Panels
Item ID: CSPA56
Qty: 1
Price: 594.97
View Online: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/rCSPA56
Buy Now: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/cCSPA56


Crown XTi 1000
Item ID: XTi1000
Qty: 2
Price: 499.97
View Online: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/rXTi1000
Buy Now: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/cXTi1000


Crown XTi 4000
Item ID: XTi4000
Qty: 2
Price: 999.97
View Online: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/rXTi4000
Buy Now: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/cXTi4000


dbx 2215
Item ID: 2215
Qty: 1
Price: 429.97
View Online: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/r2215
Buy Now: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/c2215


Furman M-8Lx
Item ID: M8Lx
Qty: 1
Price: 89.97
View Online: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/rM8Lx
Buy Now: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/cM8Lx


JBL MRX518S
Item ID: MRX518S
Qty: 2
Price: 649.97
View Online: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/rMRX518S
Buy Now: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/cMRX518S


JBL MRX515
Item ID: MRX515
Qty: 2
Price: 689.97
View Online: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/rMRX515
Buy Now: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/cMRX515


Lexicon MX200
Item ID: MX200
Qty: 1
Price: 199.97
View Online: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/rMX200
Buy Now: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/cMX200


PreSonus ACP-88
Item ID: ACP88
Qty: 1
Price: 899.95
View Online: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/rACP88
Buy Now: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/cACP88


Pro Co RM-3208-FBX100
Item ID: RM3208FBX100
Qty: 1
Price: 1299.97
View Online: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/rRM3208FBX100
Buy Now: http://www.sweetwater.com/click/wlitem/cRM3208FBX100

Thanks.
 
Before i say anything else, I should mention that one of the companies I work for is a dealer for several products I would reccomend. That being said, a couple of the lines were also chosen for a reason.

First off, I would give some serious consideration to the Turbosound TXD line. Not only is it more affordable than the JBL MRX prices you listed, or at least very similar, but in my opinion makes the JBL MRX and JRX stuff sound kind of like a toy. Personally I prefer it to the SR-X too, but I do like the VRX rigs better. If you have the opportunity, try and find a place where you can hear MRX side by side with the Turbosound TXD's. I think they are one of the best values on the market.

The Crown XTi's you spec'ed are decent amps, but lately I have been using FACE audio amplifiers. The sound pretty good (closer to the Macrotech line from Crown) but cost a LOT less than a Macrotech. The only drawback I have found with them so far is that they are VERY heavy compared to some of the newer amps on the market. For an install though, this should not be much of an issue. They also run very cool which is really nice.

As for the snake you listed, I could get you a price on a CBI snake if you are interested that should save you a couple of hundred dollars or more.

As for crossovers, thats a tough one. The low end crossovers really just don't sound all that great, but there are some that offer a lot of features. The DBX Driverack PA is an OK crossover, but certainly doesn't sound as good as the newer DBX4800's and the older 480's. I know that one of our theatters here is selling a pair of DBX Driverack 260's since I just replaced them with a BSS London series set-up. They are a little nicer than the Driverack PA's, offer some more features, but sonically aren't much if any of a step up. They do offer CPU control though which is nice and have mutes on the front panel which is also handy on occasion. Other than that, if you can't afford Lake, Klark Teknik, BSS, XTA etc.... the next best one I can think of would be an Ashly Protea series or something.

The system that you listed looks OK to me, the biggest problem I see is the JBL MRX cabinets. I just feel like you can get a lot better quality for the same if not less. Also, as far as the amps go, If you go with the Crown XTi's, you might want to see if you even need an outboard crossover with the DSP built into the Crowns.

You may also want to see if a Yamaha LS9 digital console fits your budget. That would get you recall, more features, and in my opinion better processing than what you have listed. Not to mention full routing, 31 band graphs, more auxes, more FX, more EQ, and definately more headroom and less noise than an Allen Heath GL series.

Just a couple of thoughts :)
 
xstatic,

Thanks for your very informative reply! I really appreciate it. I was talking to my rep at Sweetwater, and he suggested powered mains (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PRX515/) and subs (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PRX518S/). He suggested it because this will not be a permanent install, and it will be a faster set-up. The amps and loudspeakers will also "match" well. What are your opinions on that? Does the Turbosound gear have active options?

I would love to go the digital route with the Yamaha LS9 with the possibility to use the Aviom personal monitoring system, but I think that will be beyond our budget. I'm guessing the LS9 is in the $10k range, is that correct?

Thanks again for reviewing the gear list!
 
Turbosound does offer powered speakers, but I am not sure where they land in their price range. Personally, I do not find powered speakers to be much if any easier to setup and tear down. In fact, often, I find it more of a pain to do so. With an amp rack, you only have to get power to one area and everything stems form there to the speakers. With powered speakers, you have to get power and signal to everywhere you need to run. Granted, mic cords are lighter weight, and the amps in powered speakers definitely are lighter than most rack mount amps of any substance (unless you spend a lot). There are two other issues I have with powered speakers. First, the amps rarely sound as good, and virtually never do until you get into really high end powered speakers. Second, how will you handle an amp failure in a speaker? If an amp goes down, it is not nearly as quick and easy to work around as grabbing, borrowing or renting another amp is. Third, powered speakers, at least all of the budget ones, are no where near as loud and punchy as unpowered speakers with a halfway decent power amp. As far as the amps and speakers "matching well", I would not exactly buy that. Personally, I find that the amps in the lower end powered speakers (which the JBL's fall into in my reference) is that the amps are very slow, lack punch and extension, and underpowered for what the boxes are actually capable of. In fact, a lot of people consider Crown amps to be sort of like that. The good news though is that Crown amps are pretty durable and dependable.

As far as the LS9 goes, A few months ago when I was considering buying an LS9-32 I was looking at about $7000. That is still higher than your current budget, you listed above, but in my opinion offers MANY more options then what is listed above, as well as better sound quality in every department. It also takes a smaller case, and much less time to setup once you get some good useful templates set up.
 
xstatic said:
Turbosound does offer powered speakers, but I am not sure where they land in their price range. Personally, I do not find powered speakers to be much if any easier to setup and tear down. In fact, often, I find it more of a pain to do so. With an amp rack, you only have to get power to one area and everything stems form there to the speakers. With powered speakers, you have to get power and signal to everywhere you need to run. Granted, mic cords are lighter weight, and the amps in powered speakers definitely are lighter than most rack mount amps of any substance (unless you spend a lot). There are two other issues I have with powered speakers. First, the amps rarely sound as good, and virtually never do until you get into really high end powered speakers. Second, how will you handle an amp failure in a speaker? If an amp goes down, it is not nearly as quick and easy to work around as grabbing, borrowing or renting another amp is. Third, powered speakers, at least all of the budget ones, are no where near as loud and punchy as unpowered speakers with a halfway decent power amp. As far as the amps and speakers "matching well", I would not exactly buy that. Personally, I find that the amps in the lower end powered speakers (which the JBL's fall into in my reference) is that the amps are very slow, lack punch and extension, and underpowered for what the boxes are actually capable of. In fact, a lot of people consider Crown amps to be sort of like that. The good news though is that Crown amps are pretty durable and dependable.

As far as the LS9 goes, A few months ago when I was considering buying an LS9-32 I was looking at about $7000. That is still higher than your current budget, you listed above, but in my opinion offers MANY more options then what is listed above, as well as better sound quality in every department. It also takes a smaller case, and much less time to setup once you get some good useful templates set up.
Click to expand...

xstatic,

I agree with you. With power amps, there will be less cable mess and extension chords. What do you think of the Roland RSS system?

If I went with something like http://www.fullcompass.com/product/330852.html
Could I run a single http://www.fullcompass.com/product/315689.html bridged for each loudspeaker? Will that be enough juice? That will be better than going with a single XTI-4000 for two loudspeakers, correct?

Well...there's a trade-off if we need to stay within a budget. If we have the budget to go the LS9 route, we could get the Allen-Heath board with an Aviom monitoring system for about the same price. Would you go with the LS9 with floor monitors instead?

Thanks!
 
The turbosoiund you listed is the 12" version. If you are trying to cover more area, I would reccomend the TXD 151 instead. I do smaller rock shows all the time with just a single dual 15 sub and single 15 top for touring bands even off of just 1 face amp with no problems. No crossover even. It isn't the best way to do things, but it is part of a small PA package that we keep available for local bands and small promoters to make it affordable for them to rent PA for shows and have better sound. All of these bands have been pretty impressed with the output quality and volume of such a small portable system. The whole rig fits in my van with cabling, monitors, subs, tops, amps, stands console and mics.

As far as running amps in bridged mono, personally, that is just a sign that you have the wrong amp for the intended purpose and you will have to buy twice as many because you are bumping your amps down to 1 channel.

If you are interested, I am going to send you a PM with my cell phone number and you can give me a call. It will be a lot easier to talk about some of this stuff that way.
 
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