LIVE RECORDING

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Bloozman

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This weekend I've been asked to record a friends band at a road side beer joint (yippie!)its B.Y.O.G. bring your own gun. But seriously he's a good friend and I can hold my own.I'm bingin my Yamaha MD8 and planned on recording in 4 track mode for better recording time. My question is what is the best way to mic this? I was thinking 2 mics out front in maybe an XY configuration and a line or two off the board.By the way the only "matched pair" of mics I have on hand are SM57(are they good distance room mics?)and some RadioShack condensor mics I got dirt cheap(I know the feelings for RS but I thought they are condensor and on sale what could it hurt?)ANY and ALL suggestions and ideas are appreciated!
 
Normally I'd say put the condensers up as room mics but the shackers might fold over in front of a PA. The 57s are more of a close mic. Something else you might find is the mix from a board in a club is usually vocal heavy when recording direct so that could be a problem as well. Bottom line, hang the 57s as a stereo pair (XY) and keep your fingers crossed on the house mix.
 
this might be a little bit out there.. but, use your MD8 as the house board, and record each of the tracks as it comes in! no need to go from board to md8 now, no room mics.. just well whateve there is.. how many people. or if you have too many instruments, use the house baord to submix to your MD8.. stereo drums, then 2 guits. 1 bass.. 2 vox? 1 crowd mic for the heckling? :)
 
I had the chance to hang out backstage this summer with my friends from The Bennies (http://www.bands411.com/thebennies) when they opened up for Frank Black & the Catholics (once in PA, once in DC). Both clubs mic'd the guitar amp with an SM57. As for drums, one club had SM57s on the snare, and all 3 toms, and I believe a D112 on the kick drums, and I assume condensors under the cymbals. The bass amp was also mic'd close up. Then of course, vocals...which were SM58s.
 
I can dig it. This is exactly what I do with my MD8:

It's a beer joint, and data MDs are super expensive. Just 2-track it with your sm-57s and run it through a compressor if it sounds lean.

Are you playing acoustic or electric? If you both play acoustic, I'd put the mics about six feet in front of you and four feet apart (X). If you're playing electric, and you want the crowd in the mix, then try hanging them from the ceiling, also in X form(you'll want to do this at lunch or beforehand; you'll look stupid right before the show).

Remember that you're running digital, and that you can afford to "half-gain" your signals. The crowd may get loud, you'll get louder, and before you know it your signal is shit because you set your levels too high.

Again, don't worry about 4-tracking...a live show is a live show and having to switch discs every 35 minutes is impractical. Use your good mics, flush your bad mics, and get the 74 minutes of music like the audience hears it.

Idea: 2-track it but use 4 mics. I'm not sure if this will work, but you may be able to run your sm57s through your effects return, using the XLRs to phantom your condenser mics. Put two in front, two in back, and mix the effects level right before the show (otherwise you may get too much crowd). If you do this, let us know. I haven't tried using an fx return to make a combo mic input...
 
Thanks for the ideas! The 2 track suggestion sounds OK even though 4 tracks won't be a problem I have plenty of disc and it gives me more to choose from at mixdown.Its not my band so I will be able to switch disc easily.The thing is I've done some mic everything studio recording for these guys and they want to add some live stuff for a demo tape for club owners,so I want it to be good!I have recorded bands outside live with 57's at a distance and it sounded surprisingly good.I'm goin to invest in a pair of good recording mics soon! Kelly the 2 57's in a compressor sounds like it could be the way to go.And you mention 4 mics/2tracks,I believe it could be done setting the tracks on the GROUP setting. A 57 and condensor on each track.
 
Yeah, I don't really know how to use the "group" function. The only real application I see for that is drums, and I've got enough tracks to accomodate 3 more.

If the band you're playing with wants you on selected songs, go with the 4 (or 8) tracks. You can guess on your levels, and be at the board for a song or two preceding to get a good level for everyone.

57s have been great room mics for me, but, then again, we record in a 14' x 18' barn!

(yes, my secret revealed....)
 
Kelly,I wish I had that many to spare! Even though you can record over the MD, I always wait till the last resort to do so!I like to tweak the material,listen,then come back to it at later dates.The tip you posted on the "good" prices was cool,big help since the stores around here are asking about 25 bucks apiece! Even the discount catalogs are fairly high. When you run your 57's thru a compressor,do you run the compressor thru the channel inserts? What settings on the compressor do you use?
 
I use a Behringer Multicom--it's a four track compressor in one rack space, and it's great when recording lots of tracks at once.

For a live show, I'll set compression at 2:1. I'm always screwing around with threshhold and limits, so I can't really suggest values for those. And as for the effects return, I skip it and run serial into the MD8 (in sequence). I mean, hey, it's all being recorded as one track in the end anyway!

Live shows are definitely my last priority. You'll spend three hours setting up the perfect sound, and the night will SUCK. Or spend three minutes and the band ROCKS. So I just use my generic 2:1 compression with SM-57s (i don't have a matching pair of condensors--i'd use them if you do (well, not with THOSE)).

Actually, you may want to use the 57s all the time, regardless of your mic selection. Bars may not get rowdy all the time, but there's always some idiot (or his sorority bimbo girlfriend) that knocks the mic on the ground. Do this enough times to a condensor and you've got an expensive paperweight. 57s will come through everytime.

p.s.: they will not survive grenadine syrup. But they're cheap enough to replace, and EVERYBODY carries them (good for borrowing on a Saturday night).
 
Well the recording gig is over! And I believe it was a success.We arrived a the bar about 2 hr before play time,after the band set up,I performed my magic.The bar was off a gravel road in rual arkansas,just north of bumfuck.It was a 30'x100'concrete building with concrete floors,walls and a plywood ceiling. I put 2 57's up front in a x formation for tracks 1&2 A condensor on the ceiling about half way down the building for track 3 And a main mix off the board for track 4 The sound was full and mixing the 4 tracks seemed to be suffcient. Oh also I ran a dbx compressor in tracks 1&2 channel insert
 
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