Live recording hell!

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sonusman

sonusman

Banned
Track live via Mackie preamps to ADAT's.

Flown into Sonar via a MOTU 2408. In Sonar, I did some fader riding on the tom's (to emulate a gate) and vocals. Out of the computer via the MOTU to ADAT's to a Allen and Heath GL 2200.

Just using some Behringer Composer Pro's on bass, snare, and kick. Using a HHB Radius 40 for EQ and Compression on the vox.

Reverb via a Lexicon MPX-1. Delay is via a ADA Multi Effects unit.

A&H out back into the MOTU A/D's. "Mastered" in Wavelab using a bit of REN EQ and L2.

Enjoy if you can. So much more I could probably do for this recording, but they just didn't perform quite well enough to make it stellar.



Ed
 
Other then a bit of raunchiness on the left chanel guitar and a mild lack of bottom end on the drum kit, that is one stellar live recording you came out with!

I am very impressed!

I also wish I knew you 25 years ago when I was playing live around the club scene here in Toronto.

Our live recordings sounded like crap. I am sure you could have shined our shit, even without the digital recording gear. Skill is skill in any language and in any format and you defiantly know what you are doing.

Nice job! :)
 
Hey,

I've been discussing the issue of live recordings with a lot of Indie artists lately. It's hard work, and I think a lot of the resistance I get on the issue is just that.

What Indie bands and artists don't realize IMHO, is that the internet has created a 'pulish or perish' environment. Of course it's always been that way, I mean, in the old days, if you had no vinyl, you had nothing except live gigs and things weren't that bad. But we have certainly walked through many different stages of that equation.

20 years ago, If you had no 'album' to sell, all you had was live gigs, and maybe that was enough.

10 years ago, you better have a CD, you aren't gonna make it on live gigs alone, because you probably won't get many with a 'cassette' tape.

Now, with the internet, your fans are always hungry for more and they are constantly in your face on your website, in the forums or the blogs.

I believe that bands and artists who establish a regular routine of recording each and every live gig and simply smacking that onto a CD, and having the ability to burn CD's at the gig with a laptop and sell them for $5.00 apiece is the way to go.

And let me clarify here.

A band BEGINS by scrambling to record every live gig as a minimum taking the stereo right and left out of the soundboard, and burning that to CD in whatever form they can get it in and selling it at the bar for $5.00 per copy, and it's really a novelty item ... people can say ... hey check it out, I bought a CD of the gig 'Band Brand A' did at 'Upchuckems Bar' in Houston last weekend, it's got two really totally cool songs on it ... and such and such yells to 'Band member C' that they wanna fuck 'em ... it's hilarious ...

As a band or artist works diligently to improve and upgrade their live recording capabilities, the CD's they sell at the gigs get better. Their live performances improve as a result of having to do good shows, to get live recordings.

And there is an example of a young band doing this right now, and a label saw them working hard and signed them, before they could really go anywhere with this scheme.

This idea scares the SHIT out of labels. Because the gear is available to do an excellent job.

For instance, check out http://www.echoaudio.com and look at their 'Laptop Layla', 8 +4db level ins and outs, and you can use two at the same time on a laptop, that 16 tracks. With an external 80GB USB 2.0 drive ... yer in the fast lane ...

Sure, it's not easy, it's hard word, but the bands who do that will CONSTANTLY have new MP3's up on their sites of EXCITING live gigs, they will not be denied and they will have constant entertainment for thier fans ... and they will be the winners.

Publish, or perish.

Just think of how good you can be at recording your live gigs, after you have recorded 50 live gigs. You get pretty damn good at it.

The Greatful dead got famous doing this with crappy bootleg tapes.

With the 'Laptop Layla' you just hand the club's soundman 8 outputs labeled and say ... here ya go, all balanced, all 4db ... makes his job easy.

And you get a repuatation with club soundmen, for being an easy band to work with.

And any soundman who can't take 8 to 16 chords all nicely balanced at 4db and plug them into his board without a problem is an idiot ... and you will run into them.

I think a soundman with a laptop, a 'Laptop Layla', the Cables and a good externall drive could make good money in a town with lots of live gigging.

I write Cakewalk Automation Language code, and I know in SONAR I could develop some really nice things to cut the songs out of the huge wav files that develop from a live gig, I mean, if you get $1.00 for each CD the band sells while on tour of the live gigs you record and prep for them ... that could be very nice at the end of a tour.

And you can make MP3's, and automate the whole damn process, and sell the MP3's online for fifty cents a download ... and you get a dime ... or whatever.

But the whole point is that I think bands and artists MUST record all of their live gigs, and sometimes you get that magic, but you'll never get it if you don't do it, practice, and get good with it.

I'm D/L'ing your file now.
 
So until we get to 00:19, I'm a doubter ...

Then the first question that enters my mind ... is that real drum ?

Because we are on this bbs of course, and then I realize ... wow, this is live ...

and this is good, and DOH ! of course it's real drum.

It's radio hot in the mids, maybe to hot, and lacking in lows, low mids in the bass.

You noticed how 'The Ghost of FM' liked it, because you lit his widdle ears up, and he likes that, he's a two inch tape man, god his mixes are hot.

The drums sound awesome.

I love the acoustic, because we know we could never hear it that good at a live gig !

You must have isolated it on a track, and I would double that track and pan them to right and left of the vocal, fairly tight, and mixed tastefully.

There are some other tracks you can copy, and then make into nice stereo configurations.

Overall, the actual signal quality and seperation you have is amazing.

And of course the vocalist can come in and redo some spots ... how nice. Caught his ass in the 'machine' didnja ! ?

By 3:40, the band has got their groove tight and the recording of course sounds even better.

Man, I wouldn't ever ask for payment again, I would ask for a cut from the sales of the good bands.

Parts of this most bands couldn't do any better in the studio.

Good job fella.
 
Quote from Studioviols,
You noticed how 'The Ghost of FM' liked it, because you lit his widdle ears up, and he likes that, he's a two inch tape man, god his mixes are hot.

Actually, my 16 track reel to reel is a one inch model but, hey! It's not how big you make it, it's how you make it big!:D

Cheers! :)
 
Good job, sonusman. It sounds quite good, the toms especially. The acoustic guitar sounds great too. The vocals are lacking a bit, but nothing major.
 
Ed...you're a drummer's wet dream when it comes to recording. Ya' done good.

Were they running FX in stereo, or did you spread it out some later?

Anyway, I almost wish you'd just hit the "mute" button on the singer's track and post a music only mix. I know, I know - it's easy to criticize from behind a computer screen, but regardless of the intonation problems, the dude's phrasing had all the originality of pancake batter...(and I'm always up for posting live tracks so anybody offended can flame and mock me and my own shortcomings - I quit caring years ago :D ).

Oh, and I'm getting plenty of low end in the mix on my system...not too much...just plenty. Vocal seems a little hot, but that might just be b/c I hate it.
 
i would agree that it is a great live sound.......was it at a gig? if so, I'd include some of the crowd noise if there is any, that's always kinda cool to me...........

I agree the vocal performance might be a little hot and cold, but I've heard some major label band singers sound worse live:D
 
Pretty cool for a live recording. Is that live in a club or just played live to tape?

What are you using on the toms?
 
The guitar player in the left channel sounds just like me - turned to 11 all the time. (It always sounds good to me when I'm six inches form the speakers)
Unreal live recording - the vocal's a little hot for me - almost too clean for all the distortion happening. Drums are right-on-the-money! Great groove on the solo section. (But that's not the mix, that's the players - nice.)
If this is live in club or concert I'd pay money to hear this band - it rocks! Excellent work. - Milan
 
studioviols

You bring up some wonderful points in your thoughts above on Indie Bands. It's really gotten the mush in my brainhousing group stiring around.

The only thing that I might have to disagree with you on is the vehicle used to record these live perfomances. I, for one, think the Laptop would not be the best way to go about getting those tracks down. No matter how good the hardware and software may be, I have found Laptops unreliable for a Portable DAW and that's why I went with a Fostex VF160CDR for my Portable Rig.

I appreciate all that you said. You do a great job and put in much thought in all of your posts.

CR ><>
 

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sonusman

Excellent job Tracking and Mixing this band. Sounds great!

CR ><>
 
Axe4Yahweh said:
[B ... the vehicle used to record these live perfomances. I, for one, think the Laptop would not be the best way to go about getting those tracks down. No matter how good the hardware and software may be, I have found Laptops unreliable for a Portable DAW ...
CR ><> [/B]

I agree, the laptop is not a 'mission critical' piece of machinery for this project.

This idea though for most bands can really only be executed at a rock bottom cost. The 'Laptop Layla' can also be used with a PCI card for a regular PC bus.

I think it's the time element. Ultimately, my scenario demands the data be in a PC to upload to the web, it's gotta go there to be turned into an MP3. It can be burned for sale directly off a laptop.

If the data is originally written to a hard drive and the data is in a PC readable format, and even better, it's already in SONAR ... you can fly it to the web as MP3 much quicker and the other publishing venues are all relatively peripheral to the PC.

If it's on an external drive, it can simply be taken to any studio in the town you are in for a quick dressup in the event you get a stunning live take, and want that to 'lead off' the live CD.

Burning and selling EVERY gig is not doable until you get a business plan and structure that can be executed. But burning a 'monthly' compilation of 'Greatest Live Hits' is a great way to start.

A dedicated piece of machinery is of course the best way to go, but it's cost here also. A band can afford this 'Layla' and probably already has a desktop PC which can be used at gigs.

For the individual artist, the whole Laptop scenario is most efficient.

This ability to do this has really only come about in the last year, but I'm on the bandwagon ahead of schedule ... I'm saving me pennies !
 
While I agree that burning a custom CD for the show and selling it for $5 would be cool-

You are getting way ahead of yourself thinking you can re-ignite the interest and sell D/L ed files for even 50 cents.

And you didn't hijack this thread. That was some cool engineering there Ed! And I liked the band despite their youthful simplicity.
 
This was tracked at a show they played.

Just SM-57's on the toms. A little eq and reverb at mix.

Yeah, the vocal is a bit hot, and his performance is a bit "suspect". Oh well, I just mix it.

Ed
 
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