Live onsite recording...

johnnypraze

johnnypraze

Hip Hop Head
I could really use some help. I am going to be doing a live recording in two weeks and I'm not going to have much time to set-up. I want to make sure I have everything covered.

The goal is to mix to disc while recording. (CD's are going to be made available that night.)

My plan is to run 24 direct outs into a Soundcraft Spirit Live 4 so I have control over the mix going to the CD recorder. (I'm not going to juggle both boards, I'm just going to handle the recording)

I could use a breakdown for my notes so I don't overlook anything.

So If you were setting up, what would you do? (Direct out of Live board> Line in on recording board> Master out to EQ, Comp, then CD recorder?)

Also, I know I'm gonna need a pair of Isolating headphones... anything you can recommend that I may not think of?
 
Live can be hard.That is all I pretty much do now as building new studio. I use splitter snake,hard dis recorder and laptop as backup.Mix it back home.To try to mix on the fly,even with headphones, is difficult.You will be hearing at least 1/2 of room.Very hard to get proper mix in live environment.Why not go to laptop or hard disc recorder and mix proper?
 
jmorris said:
Live can be hard.That is all I pretty much do now as building new studio. I use splitter snake,hard dis recorder and laptop as backup.Mix it back home.To try to mix on the fly,even with headphones, is difficult.You will be hearing at least 1/2 of room.Very hard to get proper mix in live environment.Why not go to laptop or hard disc recorder and mix proper?
Click to expand...

That is what I want to do, but the artist wants discs available that night.
 
This is going to be my first live recording where I am running the show. I am unsure about a few things...

One being effects. If I run direct outs out of the house board, I'm going to lose any sound processing on those tracks correct? How can I resolve that? (The main vocalist is going to have some compression and reverb)

Also, they want the ambiance/audience recorded. I was thinking about running left and right condensers straight to the recording board. Is that the norm?
 
One thing you might consider (I've done this a few dozen times and came out with some of the better sounding recordings I've ever made from it) --

If you have a pair of post-fade aux sends (let's assume 3 & 4), you can assign 3 to left, 4 to right. If you can get away with gaining down a little, you can use 3 & 4 about 3dB down from unity for mono, reduce 3 a little to pan right, 4 a little to pan left. One board, fader movements included, EQ and inserts included. You'll still have to send the reverb returns, but assuming you're returning to channels, it's the same thing - 3L, 4R. 3 & 4 master levels for, well, master levels. You can insert a compressor across those outputs to control peaks a bit also. Ambience mics will still be post-fade - Just don't assign them to L/R. Nothing to it.
 
johnnypraze said:
One being effects. If I run direct outs out of the house board, I'm going to lose any sound processing on those tracks correct? How can I resolve that? (The main vocalist is going to have some compression and reverb)
Click to expand...
Most front of house boards run the effects return to a regular board channel. Take the direct out for that channel.

Also, they want the ambiance/audience recorded. I was thinking about running left and right condensers straight to the recording board. Is that the norm?
Click to expand...
Always use audience mics on a live recording. Lean heavily on them for your CD mix. There will be loads of sound that don't come through the close mics simply from the nature of close micing. And it's way better reverb than anything you can concoct with an effects processor. Watch the bass in the room mics. 99% of the time it is way too much. Give 'em a healthy high-pass. If you want a greater ambiance effect from the room mics, hit 'em with compression.
 
If you do use the direct outs from the other board, you'll want them to be pre-fade. Otherwise you'll be fighting with the FOH to keep his levels the same.

Another option is to use the inserts and only insert the 1/4" cable to the first click. That should send a prefade signal to your mixer.

I run FOH and record live to CD almost every Sunday at church using the same board. I use Aux 3 & Aux 4 for my L&R going to the CD/Tape recorder. It's not the best way to do it, but it works...and I've gotten pretty good at it.

As far as headphones, I used the Direct Sound EX-25 Extreme Isolation headphones. That is until my brother broke them.:mad: I can't compare them to anything else, but I grew to like them. But they are pretty easy to break.
 
ok...here goes

I can't say that all insert jacks are pre-fader, but all of the ones that I've used are. Prefader meaning that the signal goes from the preamp then to the insert jack before going through the fader, which means that you can turn the fader up/down and not effect the signal. I know that there's a thread here at HR that explains it.

Some direct outs are prefader and some are post fader. Some mixers have switches that let you choose. In the case of my Allen & Heath the direct outs are post fade and I would have to go inside the mixer to change it.:mad: When I do multitrack recording to my firepods I use the insert jacks (inserted half way) because I don't want the faders effecting my signal going to the firepods.

Honestly I can't remember (technically) why inserting a 1/4" plug into the insert jack to the first click, works...but it does. However, there are plenty of people around here that can tell you (and me). You can also buy insert to direct out cables that you plug in all of the way then to the line in of your recording mixer. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DOC106/


I don't think that I did a very good job of explaining this, but I hope that it helps. :p
 
If I use the Line-ins on the FOH board as direct outs to the recording board, how can a reverb unit be patched into one of the channels?

Also, how do I ensure the effects are being sent to the recording board?
 
Typically, you'd be running aux sends for effects back to input channels anyway. Just run those outs to the recording board along with everything else.
 
Even with isolating headphones, you're going to find it verrryy difficult to mix live. For example, how are you going to judge the low end when you're feeling all the bass from FOH? Even with triple flange tips on my IEMs I reckon I would still struggle to hear much through them at a loud gig. There's a reason why pro's don't join in with the party and sit out back in an isolated mobile studio / broadcast truck!

If I were you, I would record the whole thing multitrack to a laptop then do a 5 minute dynamics+eq+levels mix after the show. If the musical style and on-stage levels have remained fairly constant throughout, the levels you set for one track should be 'good enough' for the rest (and it will be better than trying to mix the recording live with headphones). People are going to have to wait around for a bit whilst you burn the CDs anyway, so adding a few minutes to that shouldn't bother anyone and the results are likely to be a lot better.
 
So are you doing the FOH mixing and the recording? That's not really a good way to do it. You want the FOH and the recorded mix to be completely different mixes. Both will sound different, so you'd have to sacrifice one or the other.

If they really want the recording that night, they should pay for two people to run sound, or just accept the fact that it won't sound very good.
 
+1 on the suggestion for House Mics. It is imperative to the sound of a live recording, and as suggested before, lean heavily on those and fill in with the direct sources. Honestly, with house mics you probably won't have to worry much with the effects sends, IMHO, YMMV, etc.
 
So Everything has changed...

The sound man dropped out last minute, leaving me to do both.

Here is what I am working with:
Soundcraft Spirit Live 24 channel board > Alesis HD24 recorder (via D/O's or inserts at first click) Notebook as back up.

I wont be trying to mix live anymore.

Still have a few questions since analogue is foreign to me.

What do I do about the Live ambient mics? I want to record them, but don't want them playing through the house sound. How do I achieve this?

Also, since I have no interface on my notebook, I will just be using the 1/8" line in jack. Where should I get that signal from, Headphone out?
 
Run the audience mics through the live board. You need the pre. Take a direct out of those 2 channels to the recorder. Don't bring up the fader. That will keep it out of FOH. I wouldn't worry about the laptop too much. But I guess you could do a rough mix using aux sends and send that to the line in of the laptop. And try to get dry vocals on one track and the effects return on another. But if you're mixing later you could hold off on the reverb until mixing.
 
If the direct outs are prefader, I would take the direct outs from the Soundcraft into the HD24. Set the gain properly and forget about the laptop.

If the direct outs are post fader, I would use the inserts (1st click) and run them to the HD24. Set the gain and forget about the laptop.

I've heard a lot of people talk about how reliable the HD24's are. In fact, I haven't heard too many negative things about them. Very solid machines.

If you really want to use the laptop, you could come out of the headphone jack (although you'll probably want to use it to check signals coming into the mixer) and into the line in on your laptop. Or you could use the Aux sends on your mixer and mix on the fly to your laptop using the appropriate Aux knobs. In other words, use Aux3 as Left & Aux4 as Right. Get the right cables/adapters to go from (2) 1/4" mono to (1) 1/8" stereo.
 
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