Live Mixing: Advice Needed

[BrettB]

Hi all,

I have been asked to do a live mix Thursday. I've done some live mixing before, but mostly on a small gig or with some extra help. Now the concert is going to be a bit more bigger than I am used to, and I'm all on my own, so I would like some advice from anyone, so I can compensate my lack of experience.

The fact is I have to go to the 'concert hall' tommorow to check out there material, and I have to say what I have to rent the extra stuff that is necesarry. So I need some help for you guys on that one.

I have been said they have a mixer, but I have no idea which one (All I know is 16 input channels but I have no clue of brand type, auxes, subgroups?). The band consist of drums, keyboards, electric guitar, bass guitar, lead vocals, and two backing vocals. the keyboard player plays the acoustic on a few songs. Counting the inputs I need (7 on drums, 1 on bass, 1 on el guitar, 1 on acoustic, 3 vocal mikes, stereo output from keyboard) I might have enough with 16, but because I don't have any idea about the rest of the mixing board: If it doesn't have enough auxes for monitoring or effects or doesn't have any subgroups, I'm going to ask for another one.

Aynone, here's my questions:

1) Which Rack material is essential when live mixing? A compressor? I have the advantage they are all good musicians (except the backing vocals aren't that good, so I kinda a fear I might do more wrong than well with a compressor. The Drummer has a great sound and playing, so has the singer, and the bassist and the vocalist: I worked with them before live and they are the kind of musicians that are able to USE dynamic differences in their music so I don't want to squeesh the live out of them. So maybe compression on the backing vocals? And is it best to connect it through the insert point? Or some multiband compression on the main mix? This maybe seem weird questions, but I don't have any idea what the standards with live mixing are?

I suppose I need a good rack reverb unit too? The guitarist has his own Alesis on his amplifier, but a general reverb unit for the vocals or a little bit on the drums would come in handy. Any suggestions?

I often see bigger PA's with extra graphic equalisers. Are they necesarry or do they just come in handy, keeping in mind I allready have the EQ of the board? Or are they just made to make adjustements to the room?

And how about those feedback destroyer thingies I heared about (I guess they are a spectral analyser and a EQ in one?)? When you have your mikes on the right place and the volumes right, is there reason to worry about feedback?

Keep in mind I don't know what my budget for renting will be, so I would just be glad if I only have the essentials, assuming they won't let me rent too much expensive gear.

2) Concerning mikes, I can use the collection of a friend, who has a wide collection of AKG condensors and Shure dynamics. I often see live mixers with those clip on mikes on drums, but I am tending to use the Shures (a couple of betas and sm57) on snare and toms, 3 condensors as overhead and as a hihat mike and the special bassdrum mike he has. Does, besides the fact you have lots more difficulty setting them up with extra stuff that maybe in the way, any other disadvantages using those standard mikes instead of those clip ons? Of are there any performance differences in them?

3) EQing the live gig: Any tips? I'm not that bad in EQing studio stuff, but are their other standards in live mixing (especially keeping in mind that those EQ's have less possibilities)? Like I said before, they are a professional band and they have a great instrument sound so again I'm kinda scared I'll ruin their sound more with EQing than contributing. I guess I'll low cut the cardiod mics due to the proximity effect, and maybe I'll try to give the bassdrum some extra punch or give some extra high end to the snare and cymbals. But again: the drummer has an awesome sound, so I really want him to go as neutral as possible through the speakers.

I would like to thank you all for your help and time!

greets

Brett

 

[Light]

The real question is not how many channels the board has, but how many WORK. Yeah, you'll want a few compressors, but what you will need the most is Em?s for monitor mixers, and a reverb (or two or three), if the room isn't too live. I have done shows where the room was so live that (even though my efx units where turned OFF) a sax player came up to me during a break and asked me to turn off the delay on his horn. Make sure you bring a few CD's which you are very familiar with, and listen to them to judge the system. The most important thing (since you are new to this) is to keep things simple. If you are not sure if you need something, you don't need it.
Also, live, you almost certainly do not need anything in stereo. Mix in mono, other wise some of the audience will miss somthing.

Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Roel]

Cool, live mixing gigs.

The clip-on for toms: I like the sennheiser e604 (or e504) more on toms than the SM57. But SM57 isn't bad either. A little more setup time but that's it.

The mixer: take a good look on this. Have they got a monitor system? How many lines do you need for your monitors? Keep 2 aux free for effects. (one verb and one delay, or one drum verb and one vocal verb) Groups are not necessary, but will come in quite handy, to boost something up (putting it on the mains and doubling it on a group) or to put the keyboards on one group, or the drums on one group.... Look what EQ you have on the board, 2 parametric mids is good, just one parametric mid is workable but needs alot of compromising, no parametric mids (3 fixed bands) is really a pain in the ass... Don't go there!!

Does the keyboardplayer provide you with a submix? Bring his own monitoring? And make sure you have the DI's you need!

Do you need to hook up a CDplayer with the system for in between sets? Make sure you have a stereo line left over for that too!

A good verb is essential. Depending on the room, ofcourse, but you don't want to be sitting in a pretty dead room with a behringer efx unit being your only choice. Believe me. I've been there. Aouch!!

The feedback destroyers (behringer, right?) are quit handy I guess. Used them a while ago. They are dynamic filterbanks that look for the frequencies that start oscillating and assign a filter to that. Just put them in your monitorlines, and you've got less to wory about. They also have a meter to monitor the level of your monitor signal. That's quit handy too. Take the time to download the manual from behringers website though. You'll need it to see which program to use. (I don't remember it....)

Even with your mics at the right place and your levels right, there's a chance of having feedback. And it's damn hard to get it out if it's there. That's why you should make sure to have graphic EQ on your monitor lines too! You don't want to change the EQ of you vocal channel to eliminate feedback on your monitors, so there you NEED the graphic EQ! The feedback destroyers take care of this part of your job. They do that pretty ok. But I haven't heard what it sounds like on stage. But that can't be all that bad...

The graphic EQ are used as FOH EQ. They are mostly used as inserts on the main L/R. You use the EQ to match the freq respons of your system to the room. How you set them up: use a reference cd, something you know what it should sound like. Then fiddle around untill it's as close as you can get it to what you know it sounds like. Then try a vocal mic, have the singer on stage singing and see, with neutral EQ on the mixer how the respons is.

During mixing, that EQ is also the way to go if you feel that the overal mix needs a boost somewhere or, more likely a cut. I haven't used it all that much during the mixing itself though...

The compressors: I'd certainly get them for the backings if they are unexperienced. And I'd get one for the main vocal too. Just to have it there if you need it. You happen to have a voice channel? I always take my voice channel when mixing, just because I know the thing by heart. And it probably has a better pre than most boards I walk in on... (certainly the behringers. BAH!)

A common thing to do too is using gates on tom's and kick, snare sometimes, to diminish the crosstalk of the mics. So, only allow the gates to open when the toms are hit, not when cymbals or snare are hit. I haven't done this. Wanted to try this on my last show, but I was having troubles with the insert cables on my gates...

Concerning EQ live... You are not in a studio. In a studio, you have alot of time to experiment with mic settings, the levels are more in control, so you have less crosstalk etc..., you're listening in a very controlled environment. That's not the case live. You'll have alot of sound coming from the stage directly, if it's just one band and you have a complete soundcheck, you can experiment with mic settings, I mostly have a extended linecheck, and that's it... Hardly the time for changing mic positions.

And most of all, what you are listening too is WAAAAAY far from a controlled environment with a linear system in it. You are EQ-ing to make it sound in that room, on that system. Some systems will actually sound good with no EQ. But don't hope for it. I haven't worked on such a system yet. So you'll be EQ-ing. You'll be EQ-ing the hell out of it.

Also, what you hear is a mix of the sound coming from the stage with what's coming from your system. So if your room accentuates the lows, you'll tend to take out lows on the board. I've had shows that the bass was loud enough, but lacked lows, so I boosted the lows on the board... stuff like that. It's different than studiowork, but just as much fun.

Hope you enjoyed my long post.

 

[BrettB]

Thx Light and especially Roel for your postings!

First of all I'm going to invetigate the mixer today: If it isn't workable I'll definetely ask for another one. I especially want some groups. Suppose I have a nice mix for the drums but during the gig I want to boost/diminish them a bit: I'm not intending to push six faders at the same time.

The keyboard player sens out his own mix, and he has his amplifier on stage that he can use for his own monitoring.

Thx for reminding me of the CD-player: hadn't thought of that.

I'll ask for a good verb unit like I was intended to . I really heared the Alesis are really good so I'll try to get them rent one or two of those.

I'll also ask a graphic EQ or a feedback destroyer thing (but I seem to tend more the EQ actually than having to fiddle with presets and stuff on a machine I don't know that well).

I haven't got a voice channel, so I'll have to go with the pres on the board. I'll also ask for a gate: that will come in handy. I've got a drummer that plays REALLY LOUD so I wonder kinda what consequences that will give while playing in the room. I haven't seen it yet, so I am curious. The guys who owns the room also uses it to record stuff I've been told so I hope it will be quite OK.

Your tips have really come in handy. It is kinda logical what you tell about having to mix the sound from stage with the sound from the board. The musician play pretty loud soi my main concern is to get the singer good upfront.

To be honest, the backing vocals are pretty dreadful, so if they sound as awfull as they did last time I'll just put them down.

Btw Light, I mix stuff like keyboards always stereo. I don't see why I should mix them in mono?

Thx for replies all, I'll keep you up to date about my experiences.

 

[Roel]

Mixing in full stereo live is only usefull in very small rooms, and only as a special effect. Since you'll have people standing on both sides of the room, you'll have people listening to only the left or only the right speaker, and people in the middle listening to all speakers. Hence, if you mix in stereo, you'll have them both hearing different stuff.

You can mix keyboards in stereo though, for strings etc, you'll get a wider image doing that. For pianos I would be carefull, you'll get the left side of the piano on one side and the right on the other, I wouldn't want to be on the side that only hears the lower part of the piano.

The feedback destroyer is handy, once you have the right preset dialed in, it eliminates the sue of your monitor EQ! It will take that job right out of your hands, you only have to put it in the right mode, once it's configured, you can just leave it running. Didn't have any problems with feedback once I set it up!!

Also, don't be affraid NOT to use a signal in a mix. I find myself hardly using overheads and snare drum in my mixes in small rooms. Just add what is needed, don't start with everything like you would in a studio. There is already a mix coming from the stage, you're just adding to that mix!

With loud drummers you actually get to the point that they are drumming TOO loud for the room, so you'll be using the PA to get everything else TOO loud too because you need the levels to be in balance with the drums... This is evil, be carefull, rather have the snare too loud than have everything too loud...

The hardest thing about mixing live is mixing at a decent level. Most mixers mix too loud. That sucks. Everything tends to be rather undefined. Keep your overal level at a nice listening level, and you are already a big step ahead of about 70% of the belgian live mixers I've met. No kidding.

Don't know about the Alesis verbs. I've had a midiverb III and it sucked for guitar. That was all I did at the time. Mostly I see Yamaha's, TC electronics on the bigger rigs, and occasionally lexicon verbs (lpx/mpx500 on budget rigs)...

A delay can do wonders too for your vocals. A tap function is VERY handy for this.

Also, don't overestimate the groupthingy. You cannot just pull down all the drums, since toms will have less volume coming from the stage compared to your overheads and snare... Stuff like that. I don't use groups alot. Mostly to boost stuff, or when I have my guitars with 2 mics panned hard left and right, that's 4 faders for 2 guitars only... But you've got 10 fingers, so it's not THAT hard to do....

 

[BrettB]

I just was on the phone with a friend who does lot of PA's and actually he gave the same tips you did: he also said the most important EQing is down on your monitor line, because it is there were most feedback occurs. He also talked about how he always tries to eliminate monitor feedback with a graphic equaliser: Before the gig, he puts the mikes on stage, and than slightly boost the monitor volume until you here a little feedback. Then you try to guess/here which frequency causes the feedback by boosting them one by one on your graphic equaliser that is on your monitor line. When you find the right frequency, you can diminish it so you'll lower the risk at feedback during the gig. but I also give the feedback destroyer a chance.


He also said compression on vocals is never a luxury, so even if it's a good singer: when he suddenly started shouting or whispering the compression always comes in handy. Also about the graphic EQ on your main mix to adjust the room: most mixers do that, but it is darn difficult and you really need good ears to get some good results.


Roel, what you're saying about stereo is right, I'l try to work mono on piano tracks, maybe keep it stereo on some of the hammond stuff he does, I'm not sure, I'll see if I have the time to experiment during soundcheck.

Also before this, people told me to start in theory with 'no amplification'. I also noticed live mixer want to adjust everything by putting everything louder and louder when they have doubts about their mix.

What you say about groups, I'll have to find out myself. At first sight I really thought that groups could make things lot easier, but I understand your way of thinking, so maybe I wont need them...

Intersting thread isn't it? So where is our Live Mixing forum???

thx and greets

Brett

 

[Meshuggah]

Lotsa good advice from Roel there...

When I work live, I don't use compressors unless the band is really good. I only use verb on snare and vox (and keys, if they're too dry)

If it's a big room. I find myself more and more using ONLY kick and OH mics for drums. If you get your OHs set up nicely, you won't need snare and tom mics, and you'll lose stupid phase problems. If the room is small, I normally use kick, snare and tom mics. No OHs...

Also, try not having the vox mics pointing at the drums.

Try to keep the gain settings at around 0db as good as you can. That way, you can actually have a decent visual overlook of what's in the monitors. Keep monitor send masters low, otherwise you get really small margins on the sends on the channelstrips. i.e. a smaaaall adjustment makes a big difference in volume.

If the drums are too loud w/o amplification... Good luck....

Hope this makes sense... Good luck.

 

[Roel]

Hey Meshuggah? Why don't you use compression if the band sucks? (Not that you'll get a bad band to sound good. ) I find that vocals almost always ask for compression. I don't tend to use it on bass, which is also pretty common. But I don't feel the need to compensate for a bad player unless I'm with the band and know that it's gonna be necessary...

It's pretty interesting what you say on drums in a big room compared to drums in a small room. This asks for different mic positioning I guess. In live settings, my overheads are really pointed away from the drums, towards the cymbals, so that it really is kindof micing the cymbals. I like to have control over toms and snare. But I hardly use overheads. Mostly mix in small rooms...

Good point on the aux levels too!!

On brett's post:
I never had the chance to play with feedback during soundcheck really. Mostly it's briefcase gigs with bands, and I just have a linecheck. But that really is the way to do it, and you'll learn to hear the different frequencies too.

The main EQ is indeed difficult. But you can always get it to sound better as without the eq. Use the bypass on it to compare....

Starting with no amplification is kindof a strange idea. Just make sure that during your line check, the levels are not too loud already. And listen for stuff that's too loud in your mix compared too the rest. Instead of listening to what doesn't come out. And if it's too loud, don't be affraid to take the main faders. On alot of gigs I did with my bands (mostly hardcore gigs), I started with just pulling down the main faders even before I started the line check. People mix too freakin' loud!!

 

[BrettB]

Starting with no amplification is kindof a strange idea.

Yeah, I know it sounds strange, but I didn't mean it litteraly (maybe in a VERY small romm), I just meant that it is safer to start out too quiet than too loud. Note that many musicians often play harder once they begin to play. I always ask at the musicias too play loud enough during soundcheck...

I have to go over there tonight to check the equipment. I'll let you know how it went.

 

[detuned6]

Roel

Lots of good shit!
Do you wear any ear plugs or any other hearing protection when live mixing?
When you throw a compressor on the voices, do you set them up as a limiter?(to control the hardcore screams from peaking)
The feedback destroyer, put this before the power amp?

 

[Roel]

I wear earplugs all the time, except when mixing, ofcourse. I try mixing at a reasonable level, which is actually a part of getting a good sound. So, if all is right, I don't even need them when mixing myself. But most cases, I feel I'm mixing too loud anyway. (And small rooms don't help there...)

Also, earplugs, no matter how much you pay, they will never have a flat respons, every model I tried made it sound muffled. Some more muffled than other... But the good ones are acceptable for enjoying concerts myself without killing my hearing.

A limiter is a compressor with a very high compressing rate. I don't tend to compress TOO much, it really depends on the singer. If he's really whispering one moment, and screaming his lungs out the other moment then it really needs limiting... Sometimes it doesn't need limiting... It depends...

The feedback destroyer goes right before the power amps of the monitor lines. Yup. (After the power amps will probably kill it. )
It's just a matter of logical thinking. If you hook up an EQ on it, it would be after the EQ. If you compress it (compressing monitor lines? ) you'd put it before the compressor. But I never seen anyone compress monitor lines. It would also go before the crossover. But I never seen crossovers on monitors lines either. (well, maybe in the monitors themselves, but I mean, no complete 2 way system with 2 amps etc....)

 

[Light]

Just one quick thought on stereo. (which I use a lot, sorry if I made it sound otherwise. Just a warning to be carful with it more than anything else.) I do not recall the last time I panned anything hard left and hard right. The most I ever want to pan something is to about 10:00 and 2:00, excepting as a special effect. That way, there is at least some of everything in both sides. I tend to pan keyboards out the farthest, and then I will do some very small amounts of panning left and right to make the image be somewhat representative of the instruments positions on the stage. These are very subtle moves, however.

Others may feel differently about this (and keyboard players almost certainly will), but I hate when keyboard players give me a sub mix. They will invariably change the level of something, which completely changes what my settings need to be. If I have a separate feed for each unit, I can control the levels much easier. This would poise problems, however, on a 16 channel system. If you are getting a sub mix of the keys, you will likely want a compressor across it, because the various sounds coming from the key boards will be of drastically different levels.

Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Roel]

Getting a submix from the keyboardplayer takes part of the job out of your hands, but believe me, if he's got a rack with 4 expander, a digital piano, and some analog synths, you'll be glad he gives it to you. Unless you are with the band and know what sound he'll use where, and how important it is. He's pretty dependent of his monitors for this though. But a compressor is not really needed. He'll have a good idea about his levels, and setup his submix accordingly. So you'll have to play with the fader a little more than with guitars or bass, but that would be the same or worse with everything coming directly from his keyboards.

I'm a keyboardplayer myself. I did one concert half a year ago without a submix. The drummer was the only one that heard my vocoder solo. Nobody else did, including ME! I wrote a pretty bad email to the organizer about the soundguy, they had me writing a technical rider on forehand in which I asked for a clipon for my sax (I could have one yes... FOR DRUMS???) and 8 DI's, he only had 5 or 6 of 'em. (Livable though... Less stereo...) Then he had us starting without a soundcheck, I had to get angry with him to get a freakin' linecheck. I had a piano, sampler, sequencer, and synth with vocoder setup and he wanted to start without a line check? F**k that! So I had a pretty good reason to write an angry email. It's not my fault that their schedule was not sufficient to setup our gear, we're not the typical guitar-bass-drums band, we need more setup time. Man I hated that guy. Could've done it better myself. BAH!

When I pan something completely left or right, it's either when I'm playing with the panning, playing autopanner myself, or when I have a setup with 2 mics on guitars, to get a wider sound... Or if they hand me a stereo output, depending on what it's coming from...

 

[BrettB]

Now I think of it, the keyboard player didn't give me a submix last time. damn! OK, it was only one kayboard and one JV1080 output, but I think we are 1 channel chord. Damned, why didn't think of that before!

Roel, there is nothing so irritating as a bad soundguy fucking your otherwise good performance up. that's also why I ask for so much info: you have a hughe responsibility as a soundguy, so I really want to do it right.

Btw, I started a new thread here were I state the equipment I have to use and how the room is like. Feel free to read it and give your thoughts!

 

[Roel]

If he's just got 2 modules, it's ok to work without a submix. Just make sure you've got those DI's. If you run short of channels (and you're multicable has got some left) you can use the aux returns of the monitors as stereo inputs I guess...Only for linelevel signals though...

Take your headphones so you can monitor which sound is coming from which module!

 

[vox]

This is how I usually approach a gig.

Things you may need

1. CD player/ discman with referance material
2. Headphones
3. Flashlight
4. Board labelling tape or 1/2" wide masking tape
5. Sharpie marker or pen

Basic rack

1. 31 band graphic eq for main speakers.
2. 31 band graphic eq for each monitor mix.
3. At least one good reverb.
4. A good delay (tap tempo really helps)
5. A quad gate
6. A compressor for each vocal channel (and sometimes kick, snare, bass, and acoustic gtr.)


First listen to a referance CD through the system with the house 31 band EQ and board channel EQ flat or bypassed, if you're lucky and its a matched factory assembled system by a company like EAW or Meyer it should sound pretty good, if it sounds unbalanced, bass or treble heavy or light etc, ask the PA company to adjust the crossover or amps, these systems usually run either 3, 4 or 5 way so you can use the amp/crossover volumes kinda like a big 3, 4 or 5 band EQ (bass, low mid, high mid, high, etc).
Walk around the venue, you will probably find that the sound balance changes depending on where in the room you stand, take a mental note and make sure that what you are hearing from the mix position isn't completely different from what everyone else is hearing, if it is you may need to try to compensate mentally or get them to move the board to a better spot (if possible). The sound will almost always be different in different places in the room so just aim for an average.
When the system sounds balanced you may notice that it still has some peaks and dips, this is normal and you can use the 31 band eq to tame them. Plug in a vocal mic and talk into it, make sure that your voice sounds natural through the PA, have the vocalist or anyone for that matter talk or sing while you listen for boxiness, boominess, harshness or sibilance, find the offending freqs and pull them down a little with the 31 band. Dont go for a super bassy system balance, it may sound impressive with a CD but will most likely cause problems with mics. I find that once the the main Eq is set so that the system is as flat as possible that very little EQ is needed on the channels, and so channel eq can be used for shaping rather than correction. While you have the mic plugged in you may as well mess around with the effects and get a basic starting point for reverb and delay settings.

Important! If you are mixing monitors from the main mix position (Front Of House - F.O.H ) then adjusting the input trims will also change the monitor levels causing all sorts of bad things, to avoid this I set the trims for the vocal channels now, i will sing and even yell into the mic while watching the metering to make sure the signal is hot enough but not overloading, when I find the right level it stays there for all vocal channels unless there is an extremely loud vocalist in which case it may be turned down a bit but never up.

Next turn the lead vocal monitor send up a little, go to the stage and talk through the lead vocal mic, listen to how the monitors sound, once again if they are factory assembled they should be ok
but if they are homemade you may be in for some fun, this is the hard part, hopefully you have someone competent to help you at this point, if so one person stands on stage and says which frequencies to cut or boost on the 31 band EQ at the mix position, if not you have to either run back and forth or rig a monitor at the mix position while you EQ it. You are EQing first for a balanced sound, if its a biamped monitor (seperate amps for high and low) start with the amp volumes. Once it sounds reasonably flat start increasing the level of the auxillary send on the channel until it's quite a bit louder than you could possibly imagine that it will ever need to be. As you slowly start increasing the volume in small increments have your onstage assistant point the mic at the monitor and move it around, it will start to pick up feedback at different frequencies depending on which part of the monitor the mic points at, as each frequency starts to ring find it on the 31 band eq and drop it a little. Repeat this until the monitors are loud enough (that means that you are sure they are too loud) and there is no feedback, when doing this dont put the mic too close to the monitor 3 or 4 ft away is fine. Let them try cupping a hand over the mic, this is a great feedback inducing trick that inexperienced vocalists love to use, make sure cupping doesnt cause any feedback. The levels that the input trim and the auxillary sends are now set to are the highest that they can go without causing monitor feedback, thats why I set the vocal trims and dont change them, I know at these setting the vocal monitors are plenty loud and any higher they will feedback, these are your max levels remember them, you can turn down but not up.

Good Luck

 

[BrettB]

Vox,

Thanx for your reply. You said some interesting stuff. The fact that trimming adjustement also affect is normal, but you gotta think of that on the spot.

I'll don't have a graphic equaliser to adjust the room, but it sounds very OK on itself, it is acousticly adjusted, so I hope the room wouldn't give to much trouble.

For feedback of monitors I have a feedback destroyer: It has 24 filters that search for resonating frequencies and he locks them A handy machine from Behringer, who could think that

I'll let you know how this ends.

greets
Brett

 

[Roel]

Well, you really should check how the sound is after the feedback destroyer. It is handy though.

Also, you should use it 'stereo', one channel for each monitor line, so that's just 12 filters. But it's enough. I liked having it doing that part of my job... The guy that mixed the first half of that festival didn't take the time to set it up correctly, so I had some feedback problems, which I had to adjust for myself with the graphic EQ. (We had both.) But after I found the time to browse the manual and put it on the right preset, it worked great...

 

[BrettB]

I was intending to put each one to one monitor line.

Looking at the manual, the principle is you can get it to lock frequencies and you can assign filters to keep looking for new frequencies. The singer now doesn't move a lot so I think I'll make a preste with only 2 or 3 filters searching for new frequencies and let the 9 or 10 other filters find their frequency and lock them.

 

[Roel]

There's this preset that will automatically look for all filters itself. That's the one I used. Less fiddling around. Whatever works aye?

The manual sucks btw. Bah!