live midi setup! help!

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chalin111

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Hey,

Ok, i'm new to applying effects to vocals when playing live, especially since
each of my band's songs have different effects sets for vocals on each song! not to mention, i use three effects racks: TC Electronic and 2 Kurzweils. So here's the deal. I need to somehow have these 3 racks controlled via a MIDI controller so that i can just hit one button on the controller to switch between presets. But the other thing that confuses me...is...the midi controller? does it have the ability to control 3 boxes like this? For example, let's say i have Preset A on the TC Electronic and Preset B on a Kurzweil and Preset C on the other Kurzweil...and then i have a whole different setup for the next song like Preset D on the TC, Preset E on the Kurzweil, and Preset F on the other Kurzweil. Can a MIDI controller understand all this and be able to make the switch from the 1st block to the 2nd block? (with the touch of one button?) If so, how? and if so, what brand of controller do i need to buy?

I'm a newbie..so the more you explain on this for me, the better...thanks for anyone's help...

chal7ds
 
Personally, I'd tckle this by taking a laptop on stage and storing the necessary MIDI messages in songs for each different song that you perform. The down side is that MIDI and Live generally didn't used to go together very well although I think it's now much better than it was. The pros are that, once you've got all your songs created it should be a breeze to have all your effects boxes (and if you have a keyboard player, you can have his presets changing too) changing before each new song starts.

I've got to dash now but I could provide further direction if need be.


andy
 
that sounds cool andy, but i have no idea how i would go about setting that up on a laptop. i'm very interested in how i would get that done..but i definitely need more help, if you want to take some teaching me, i would really appreciate it..if you have time...

i already have the settings for each song written down, so basically i guess i need save them as personal presets in each rack first? and then, from there, i guess the laptop would have a midi cable to a midi switchbox? (like the one Cyanide posted?) so i would have to switch between three sections and hit a button on the laptop for each section? (total = 3 keyboard hits before the song starts?) am i right on this, or totally off?

chal7ds
 
chalin111 said:
each of my band's songs have different effects sets for vocals on each song!
Click to expand...
This can be easily accomplished by setting each unit to a different midi channel and sending program change commands.

A quick way to solve the problem would be to get an older, midi only sequencer from eBay or Craig's List, set up the names of all of your songs and make each sequence just long enough to send the program change information. As long as the sequencer has the ability to hold as many songs as are in your set you wouldn't even need to reload any song data while you were playing.

Links from current eBay listings --- one, two and three .

The last one is to a Kawai q-80 which can be criptic (sp?) without the manual but once you learn it you never forget. I have a few of these lurking around here for the day when they need to be pressed into service in just the kind of situation you are facing...
 
so if i get one of these sequencers, i can control all three rack units with it? do you plug the midi cable from the sequencer to the TC electronic and then another cable from the TC to the Kurzweil and then another cable from the Kurzweil to the other Kurzweil? just like a chain system?

And how does the sequencer know how to identify 3 different presets from three different racks? Is that based on what numbers i set each rack unit's MIDI port to? The sequencer recognizes the MIDI port #'s and i can program it from there?

just wondering how this all works..physical connections..and internal process...


chal7ds
 
Read these two good articles on midi basics - part one and part two.

Yes, you plug the sequencer's midi out into the midi in on the first one, then midi thru on the first to midi in on the second then midi thru on the second to midi in on the third.

Set midi channel 1 for the TC Electronic, channel 2 for the first Kurzweil and channel 3 for the second Kurzweil --- then make a chart of each song and which preset you need for each effects unit to use for each song.

The individual programs in each unit respond to program change commands, and they are kept separate from each according to channel data which is part of the midi stream.

You don't need anything fancy to solve your problem. You only need to send 3 program changes - one to each effects unit - at the beginning of every song.

Midi-only hardware sequencers were thick on the ground a decade ago. Models I owned included a Yamaha QY-700, Roland MC-500, Kawai Q-80 and an Alesis MMT-8. You could probably find one of these - or the many other models like them - in your local used musical instruments store for between $50 and $100, and between reading the manual for your effects units and one of these small, compact units you'll have your problem solved in no time - to the amazement of your bandmates.
 
chalin111 said:
that sounds cool andy, but i have no idea how i would go about setting that up on a laptop. i'm very interested in how i would get that done..but i definitely need more help, if you want to take some teaching me, i would really appreciate it..if you have time...
Click to expand...


sorry... been having my own MAJOR DAW problems... and I'm still not done.

Thanks to ssscientist for stepping in during my absence ;)


how's it going anyway?
 
i still haven't bought the sequencer..but i plan to when i get my next paycheck. i'll post in here and let you guys know how it went when i get it in...

thanks for everyone's help.. :)

chal7ds
 
chalin111 said:
i still haven't bought the sequencer..but i plan to when i get my next paycheck. i'll post in here and let you guys know how it went when i get it in...

thanks for everyone's help.. :)

chal7ds
Click to expand...

What sort of sequencer are you thinking of getting? Hardware or software?

If you go software then I think you should first of all try all the trial versions first to give you an idea of what you are getting into. And even try some of the freebie ones because they may be just right for your needs (as well as free).

andy
 
Synkrotron said:
What sort of sequencer are you thinking of getting? Hardware or software?
Click to expand...
chalin111 doesn't need to go the full sofware sequencing route to remotely change FX programs on three separate effects units.

I've set up a scenario in which an older, midi-only sequencer will do the job nicely. If he does decide to go the fully sequenced route the unit will be worth the small amount he will pay for it on the used market at some future date.

As I said above, this is a simple midi trick that only requires a simple solution.
 
I would look at a midi program change stomp board. I used to have one made by ART which was just 6 stomp buttons that would be assigned to various midi program change commands

*edit*

Here is what i'm talking about
 
Last edited:
altitude909 said:
I would look at a midi program change stomp board. I used to have one made by ART which was just 6 stomp buttons that would be assigned to various midi program change commands

*edit*

Here is what i'm talking about
Click to expand...
THis may seem like a dumb question, but I'm guessing that I could run that into my firewire410 and trigger stuff in reason and ableton right? would I need a seperate program like midi translator?

-C$
 
You could, but it would not be that useful. Its handy for live setups but for the computer, its easier just to mouse it or use a keyboard midi controller since on that the "master" midi controller, you can only send CC commands. The two pedals would be pretty cool though (the one i had didnt have those)
 
altitude909 said:
Here is what i'm talking about
Click to expand...
This post is about sending 3 separate program changes on 3 separate midi channels.

That device would be great if just one unit was involved but that's not the case here.
 
As I said above, this is a simple midi trick that only requires a simple solution.
Click to expand...

absolutely... fully agree ;) and PC's on stage can be more trouble than they are worth...
 
That device would be great if just one unit was involved but that's not the case here
Click to expand...

It does. You can program each button to send any program change on any channel, you would have to press 3 buttons though

But i would simplify things by just saving the desired program to the same slot on each box and then have them all set to omni/same midi channel (i.e. song 1 efx would be in slot 1 on all boxes, song 2 on slot 2 and so on) and just send one program change from any midi device
 
well, i was planning on getting that yamaha sequencer...the 'two' that sscientist posted...but still waiting for this friday to buy it...

yeah, i don't want to have to hit three buttons, i just want to hit one button before each song..so things don't get complicated..
 
Behringer FCB1010

Although often used as an expletive on this board, the #~&*#;!! Behringer FCB1010 foot-controller can do all this for you. It can send up to five patches change and two configurable cc messages simultaneously with the press of one button. It can control as many midi devices as you can daisy-chain together.

It does have a fairly steep learning curve, but is not obsolete, and their are several forums devoted to it's programming. Behringer has supported it failry well with firmware upgrades, and the whole setup can be had on Flea-Bay for $100.

I use one with a guitar rig which contains three midi units plus guitar synth. I personally prefer the warm interface of a laptop sequencer, but I am still learning what this little foot controller can do. Actually, if you use a software sequencer that can send sysex, you can dump those messages right into the Behringer "copy" function, and store it as a preset. Pretty cool, Luke!
 
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