Listen to my recording and tell me what sucks.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gregwor
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Gregwor

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Here is the link.

---Listen to either/or "Ashley", or "Fall Fashion Sale"

http://www.sunshinecable.com/~steve/

I have posted in the Cool Edit Forum, because I can't get the overall recording volume up to par. This is maxed out at 0 dB....pretty weak hey. I think the vocals are too loud and it's limiting the volume to the vocals peak volume. If you can get them any louder let me know.


Good and Bad:

I think the kicker isn't there enough....it doesn't have enough tick either. The vocals are too loud. The symbols/hi-hat is abit loud. The guitars are a little too quiet and are have a little bit too much low end.

Any more.....PLEASE don't ignore this...I need to know. Thanks so much. Greg.
 
Actually, I think there's more here that DOESN'T suck that does:)

First off(the songs still downloading, bear with me), your guitar tone and spread is KILLER. At least for this type of music. It's just right. A little off topic, would you mind telling me what you recorded them with and HOW you recorded them?? I'm really struggling with this part of my recordings right now.

Ok, back on topic:)

I don't hear ANY bass guitar at all. Needs to be addressed. Wait, I think I just heard it in the chorus. Maybe you need to eq it out of the mix; give it it's own space. Again this is something I'm struggling with at the moment as well, so if you figure it out, feel free to let me know.

The vocals sound a little harsh. Maybe a touch of compression and you'd be able to bring the mix up without clipping.

I don't use CoolEdit, so I'm not really familiar with it. Have you tried going a couple db higher and seeing if it distorts? Have you listened to it on different speakers?(not sure of your monitor setup)

The drums sound good once the vocals start. I can really hear the kick and it sits well. The cymbals I agree are a little too loud.

Overall, I think it all sits very well together minus the minor things I mentioned. I know it's got to be frustrating to have a mix that sounds this good just to not be able to bring the volume up to a decent level.

Good luck with it man, and if you don't mind filling me in on your guitar recording techniques(as well as bass), I'd appreciate it.

Alex
 
if u wanna pump up the volume get the PSP Vintage warmer
its a compressor/tapesimulator/eq and makes u wanna make ur recording louder

and get the Waves L2 to limit(clipp the peaks) and u got a loud and still dynamic mix if u use it wisely if u don't u'll just have a flat loud peice of crap
 
My setup, technique, and my shame.

OK....first off, this is my friends band.

Second, your gonna laugh at my setup, but oh well.

-Yamaha MD8.....that's right....compressed audio!
-I have the ability to run 2 effects processors off my recorder, so I own a (sorry for writing it) Behringer Composer Pro and I rented a Roland 'something'330 reverb unit. I have been told by alot of people that I am not supposed to hook up the compressor through my aux's, but it worked so I don't care :)


...that's it.

For this recording, here's the fine details. (go ahead and laugh)

-Used all dynamic mics. Used 8 mics on the drums...double mic'd the snare. We rented that AKG drum mic kit that has the 440's and 1 550 mic. The 440 sounded best on the kick. Used Audix vocal mics (OM-3xb and an OM-6) for overheads.
-Bounced the drums on to stereo tracks.
-Recorded bass via XLR line-out off my bass head
-Note: I didn't use any mic pre-amps....just plugged into my recorder!
-Recorded the right guitar with my Gibson SG Supreme through my Mesa/Boogie Triple Rectifier through my Mesa cab loaded with Custom 90 speakers.
-Recorded the left guitar with my friends Gibson Gothic Les Paul through his hot-rodded JCM800 through my Mesa cab.
-Recorded all vocals with my Audix OM-6 at nose height a few inches away through my home-made pantiehose windscreen/pop-filter.

So....I can't really change too much on the drums. I kinda put everything on them in their own frequency range so minor tweaks may be applied. Note, however, I don't have too much EQ to play with on the MD8.

Getting onto CD:

I ran out my RCA master out's from my recorder into the line-in on your run-of-the-mill computer with a Soundblaster Live soundcard. Used CEP to record it. I put it in, in stereo.....yes, I did all the mixing and EQ, and effects on the MD8. CEP was used to clean up the beginnings/ends of the songs.


Now I feel dumb for revealing my crappy technique. Thanks for the compliment, but I did learn alot from this experience. I want you to know that I would have done absolutely everything different than I did.

I can't put these into MP3 format for awhile.....download the wav's and delete them when your done. Sorry, and thanks. Greg.
 
Hey man, unorthodox techniques are rad:)

My basic philosopy is 'put it wherever ya got to to get the sound ya want. whether it's on the floor, on a chair, or in a bathtub':D

Maybe the fact that you didn't use any mic preamps is limiting your volume. Just a thought.

Well, I hope you can figure something out. Good luck.

Alex
 
I didnt get a chance to listen but using a compressor in an effects loop completely defies the purpose. Unless you have it sent from a prefader Aux and keep the original signal muted. Otherwise you are just combining the compressed signal with the original. If you are also sending different sources to the compressor than you will have some very weird things going on.

The compressor needs to completely replace the original sound in order to work properly.
 
About the compressor....

I cranked my aux sends and aux returns to try as much as I could to eliminate the pre-compressed audio. I know exactly what you mean, and so I took that into consideration.

Question--If I don't have prefader aux's, where the hell am I to put my compressor, because I have also been told that compressing before EQ, will cause crazy stuff to happen. I haven't experimented with it yet, but do you have any suggestions?

Mic pre's---I don't think that that had anything to do with my low volume. I had the levels about maxed out going into my recorder, and out to CEP. I normalized the level in CEP, so what you hear, is as loud as it will get before clipping will occur. I won't mind if you play with the wave in some programs. If you can get it sounding better/louder, let me hear, and I will keep them :)

I would like it if some more people will critique the songs....or give me pointers or suggestions with the volume problem.


...one last thing. When I play these songs on winamp, the eq indicators show it to be lacking high end, yet listening, it is on the verge of being harsh with highs....what's with that? Thanks. Greg.
 
Question--If I don't have prefader aux's, where the hell am I to put my compressor, because I have also been told that compressing before EQ, will cause crazy stuff to happen. I haven't experimented with it yet, but do you have any suggestions?
Click to expand...

That is what inserts and direct outs are made for. Does your MD8 have those for any of the channels? If not the best way would be to send the signal out with the Aux and record the compressed signal onto a spare track.

EQ after compression isn't that big of a deal.

The MD8 does have preamps. That's what the XLR jacks are. Better pre's give you a cleaner amplification and better clarity.

When you master in CEP don't normalize. Instead use some compression or limiting or get the average sound level up. The CEP compressor is pretty tricky though.
 
I recorded my band's first CD with the MD8, too, and we only used 57s and 58s. I have the same problem that you do with drums, not enough kick, and the cymbals sound unnatural. For your next attempt, try and get one or two condenser mics to use as drum OHs. I'm gonna be re-doing my other band's demo soon and I plan on using one or two Oktava MC012s for OHs and I can't wait to hear the improved sound I know I'll get.

Even though I don't particularly like the vocals, the recording was much better than what I got with SM58. Again, I got a condenser, an SP C1, to use on vocals for the demo. I wish the singing was more in tune.

Guitars sounded good. Did you mike the amps or use record outs?

Oh, the MD8 does have channel direct outs.

Also, as TexRoadKill posted, normalising won't do what you want. Compression and limiter is the way to go. If you have Sound Forge, you can try Wave Hammer. Personally, I like T-RackS although Ozone is good, too.
 
I quickly "mastered" ashley and saved it as an mp3. Check it out here:


I am still learning mastering so I'm not a pro. But it should give you an idea what mastering can do - and it ain't just normalising. :)
 
I lisened to Ashley, the mastered version on this thread and the original. The mastered version brings up the volume a bit and adds some fullness however...

The song just dosn't "groove". Nothing pulls me in. The break toward the end at least changes the feel of the song, but in my opinion a song should always build, not the other way around. In other words once your crankin, it's hard to bring the audience down without losing them.

The vocals are wayyy too lloouudd. Since the singing is not that strong I would do my best not to exaggerate them. Also the vocalist seems to be doing a "Toadies" impression. Toadies is a popular rock band from Texas. Holding notes too long and letting them "hang out" so to speak, way too much.

The drummer is hitting his china/pang cymbal way too much. Tell him not to alternate between another crash and the pang cymbal.

Now that's the bad, here's the good. You guys CAN play. And perhaps a different song with a better groove and smoother vocals would bring out your sound better. Because I like the "sound" more than I like the song. KEEP AT IT!!
 
High !

I listened to the mastered version and agree to misterys statements. The singer seems not to have the perfect intonation... Perhaps you might try to cut at 3kHz - I read that would reduce the problem (never tried this...). The track's much too loud anyway...
The groove is totally against my personal feeling - reminds me of the 'sophisticated' hardrockers that I never liked.

But I'm really astonished by the quality of recording that you achieved with the md8 - I always though these were rather 'good for nothing'.

Re-listened to it: IMO there's too much reverb on the drums. I would not notice it through the song, but when listening to it in the beginning, there was a lot. These verbs (if present) might be one thing to kill your voice. You might try some early reflection stuff instead. The singer sounds like a 80's pop singer, so he might get lost when being turned lower... You might try to compress him a little harder... Try a delay for the singer to give him 'air'. Set the time according to the song...

Ok, ciao

Axel
 
I would love to listen but I have to agree with someone earlier. Most of us, (if not all), would prefer the format to be mp3 please. I am only on ISDN and I doubt I'm the only one.

Thanks,

Neil.
 
ONCE AGAIN!

I just want to remind you all........



THIS ISN'T MY BAND!!! It's my friends band.





Also....I didn't post to get comments on the song itself, or the bands talent. I could care less about that. I am a 19 year old who is interested in getting better at recording, using the crappy gear I have. Thanks for the comments....keep them coming, and I will listen to the 'mastered' version of Ashley. Thanks so much for trying....that is what I needed.














note: this is not my band.

Keep them coming. Greg.
 
RIFFING

OK, I listened to the mastered version.......Super full EQ meters on winamp, and huge volume......it is exactly what I was looking for.

The only bad things, were that there was way too much reverb, and afew of the instruments, mainly the guitars, sounded muffled vs. the original. I almost find this strange, since you boosted all the higher frequencies (according to the EQ meters on winamp).


Next, are you going to share your secrets, or am I going to have to get you to do all of the songs for me and tell the band to give you some credit on the CD? You are a god. Please, if you wouldn't mind, see if you can get the same results with a little less reverb and clearer guitars, and share it with us. Thanks so much....I started to loose hope there for awhile. Hope to hear from you soon. Greg.
 
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I'm no god, trust me - I think Blue Bear Studios would attest to that! ;) If you got a budget, I'd be willing to negotiate. :) Don't worry, I'm cheap - I can work on a flat fee. Send me a Private Message if you're serious.

Anyway, the "secret" is mastering. If you don't know about it, do some research on it. It's the last step in a commercial album release (after the recording and mixing). In general, mastering can make a good mix sound better but keep in mind that it won't make a bad mix sound good. It'll make a bad mix sound better, but never make it sound good.

For getting the "sweetness" part of the mastering, I use iZotope's Ozone (www.izotope.com). Specifically, I use its multi-band compression, exciter, stereo widening and EQing. The EQ section is especially helpful for getting started in mastering since it gives you a visual target to shoot for. I've never gotten as close to pro level as I have using Ozone. Highly recommend it. Their tutorial paper is a great intro to mastering, by the way, and it's free!

For getting the "loudness" part, I use IK Multimedia's T-RackS 24 (www.t-racks.com). Although Ozone can give the "loudness", I really like T-RackS so I haven't played with that part of Ozone. In theory, you should only need one of the two. The "loudness"/"in you face" sound level is usually called "brickwall limiting". So in T-RackS, I use its compression, limiting and output stage after the sweetening in Ozone. If I'm working with 24-bit files, T-RackS is where I use dithering and convert it to 16-bit for CD creation.

I don't like any of my reverb plugins. For Ashley, I used DFX's StudioVerb. I wasn't sure if it was too much reverb and apparently, it may be. The sad part is, I think I only used 10% of the wet signal and 100% of the dry. I need to learn to use it better. :P
 
Thanks so much for your info.

If you can get even one of these songs sounding really really good, I will consult the band and ask them if they can pay yo' ass.

On another note, can you recommend any online pages that can teach me basic mastering? I know I will suck at it and stuff, but you have to start somewhere right. I need to get this CD done ASAP, so the sooner the better, thanks. Greg.
 
Definitely check out Ozone's mastering guide. Download it at: http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/ozoneguide.html

Craig Anderton's "Audio Mastering (Quick Start)" is a good book for beginners. It takes a techno (?) song and each mastering step has a seperate audio file so you can hear the difference. This book is how I find out about Ozone. It's a short book but that's part of its appeal. You can buy it from Amazon at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...7981418/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-3520419-1229748

Check out www.drtmastering.com and click on "Background Info" for info on mastering. If your friend's band want a real mastering engineer, I'd recommend him, David R. Torrey. For a normal CD, he can master for $400. One of the bands I'm in just got our first commercial CD release mastered by him and he did a good job. I just wish I could've given him better mixes to begin with.

Good luck and have fun!
 
On the website from tc electronics, you can download a pdf thats called 'secrets of the mastering engineer' or so, written by Bob Katz...

Try it...


Axel
 
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