Listen to MXL V67 on Grand Piano

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mastac

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Hey everyone,
I have a recording of a real nice Yamaha Grand Piano using two MXL V67s. I'm guessing there will be folks that will be interested in hearing what this sounds like.

Anyways, what I really need is some advice on how to make this recording better. I am very new to piano miking - I have read a whole lot but have not actually had real hands on experience until now.

I recorded my roommate, Lucas, doing a freestyle Christmas medley. Here is the link to the mp3 encoded at 192 kb/s:



Here is my signal chain:

V67 --> Roland MMP-2 preamp --> Firewire 410 Digital in --> Cakewalk Sonar

There are no effects running with the Roland MMP-2. If you would like to hear the original 24-bit 88Khz wav file, I can post that up also.

If you have any feedback on how to improve the sound, you can let me know. I know I didn't give you much info on how I did, and I will post back later and fill you in so you can better help me for those who are willing. I already know there are some issues with mono-compatibility and there is a little clipping in some areas.

For the rest, enjoy the sample of what a piano sounds like with an MXL V67 miked by an amatuer college student who doesn't really know what he's doing!

Craig
 
I'm no pro, but I just thought I'd say that it sounded really nice. Just for fun I put a waves ir1 hall reverb on it, I doubled the width of the stereo image, eq'd it a bit, and ran it through waves L2. Now it really sounds huge.
 
Craig, I can't help it and please tell me I'm wrong, but on my Altec Lansing computer speakers with sub, it sounds really very good. But I have the feeling I'm listening to a sequenced digital piano.

If I'm wrong you may hit me or kick me.
 
Yeah its a pretty amazing little mic for the money.
 
Han said:
Craig, I can't help it and please tell me I'm wrong, but on my Altec Lansing computer speakers with sub, it sounds really very good. But I have the feeling I'm listening to a sequenced digital piano.

If I'm wrong you may hit me or kick me.
Click to expand...
Hey Han,
Thanks for your response - this is a 100% live recording of a Yamaha grand piano in the music and art department's building on campus. I guess it sounding like a sequenced digital piano may not be a good thing.

I can say one thing though - my roommate is the best piano I have ever come into contact with, and in my opinion, skill-wise is one of the best I have heard. This is not a display of his best ability - this is something he made up on the fly to give to you guys just so we can improve the sound of the recording of the piano.

I won't kick you at all ;) - but I seriously appreciate your feedback!

Peace,
Craig
 
Recording Specifics

If you are willing to help me out, I would like to hear from everyone has to say to improve the recording. We are in a room about 10 feet by 15 feet - just a real small room just enough to fit the grand, player, and me with my laptop on another piano stool.

We have two V67s set up to mic a grand in the traditional way - the way diagrammed in most books, articles, etc. I have one mic closer to the piano player on the treble side and the other mic closer to the back of the piano more on the bass side. I have the mics directly facing the strings/soundboard (the mic is parallel to the piano) - I'm guessing that's what makes most sense. The piano lid is all the way up - should I set it up with the lower level setting?

In terms of room acoustics - it doesn't seem to be a problem to my ears. The one wall opposing the opening of the lid and the wall farthest from the piano player is padded which will absorb piano - the other sides are not padded - just a drywall kind of material. Would there be any need to dampen the unpadded wall with a blanket or do any other kinda bootleg, ghetto treatment to the room?

Another issue involves mono-compatibility. I hear that if you place the mics closer together, the problem will be diminished - I don't know how accurate that is. How much is too much - how bad is my mono-compatability in the recording?

The last issue involves mixing the piano with other instruments. I asked feedback before about MXL V67 miking with a piano. One person mentioned that with solo piano and maybe a voice - it will be alright, but mixing with other instruments may pose a problem, probably because of lack of clarity - just due to the nature of the mic. Will that really be a problem based on what the sample I have up reveals? And if it is, is there anything I can do about that (maybe EQ or whateva)?

Again, I appreciate all the feedback received so far and will greatly appreciate any answers, no matter how harsh, to questions I posed. Feel completely free to tear up and blast the recording - I have sorta prepared for that (although so far so good ;) ).

Craig
 
Your roommate/friend plays well... I'd have to listen to it again (and with monitors)... but, was that some petal noise I was hearing... if so, you may want to work on reducing the foot petal noises and etc.
 
Sounds GREAT to me! The room sounds fine. I can see where some would have a preference for more of a "concert hall" sound, but it sounds perfectly natural as is - I wouldn't touch it. I love the hi-lo stereo sound.

Remember - good recordings are 5-10% gear and 90-95% talent. I'd say you have both areas covered adequately. :cool:
 
Craig,

First off, your friend has chops to spare...
And you are doing well with what I am hearing

I own the 67s myself. I can understand the 'digitized' remark, because, although the key action is crisp as can be (with just a little favoring the right channel in volume as I hear it), I dont hear the body of the grand at all. None of the big sympathetic harmonies that tell me this is a grand.

The smallish room may be killing the grand's sound, although, from what I remember (playing a monster Bosendorfer in a tiny space) sounded like thunder, so most likely you have to back off on the miking and try a few times. And by all means, keep the lid open.

Don't be afraid to go crazy, despite the book theory. Try backing the mics way off, keeping the same relative position towards the piano. Play a bit, listen.
Get closer, play a bit, listen. Don't change the relative idea of where the mics are pointed at the piano, thus it will keep some consistency in the test.

Only after doing this, you can throw away the 'classic' setup, and Really Experiment.

And be prepared for the idea that what you just played for us may indeed be the best piano sound that particular room has to offer, in terms of recording, unless you have massive amounts to spend on the process. But don't take the word...experiment..

Best,

CC
 
Thanks much fam

Thanks a whole lot everyone for the complements and advice (I'll pass the complements to my boy Lucas) - I will definitely experiment as suggested. If anyone else has anything to say, hit it up!

Thanks again fam!
Craig
 
I though there was a good balance between high and low strings. How'd ya position it?

BTW- Your roommate's good.... and a nice composition....
 
Nice recording.
LDC's can produce a really rich, lush tone, that's full and warm, and can exhibit all those qualities we strive for.
But this recording seemed to lack just a bit of lower frequency or bass detail.
Now, it could be the piano. Yamaha's are notoriously bright instruments. Or, it could simply be your mike positioning.
If you have time, and want to experiment, got to this thread, and read the 4th post down from the top.

I explain in detail how I positioned a pair of LDC's (in this case TLM103's) on a large grand piano, and there's a sound clip as well.

I have a single MXL V67, but as I only have one, I never tried it out on my grand. I'm willing to bet, that if you experiment with positioning using my measurements as a starting point, you'll achieve spectacular results!

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=1120233&highlight=TLM+103#post1120233
 
mastac said:
Hey Han,
Thanks for your response - this is a 100% live recording of a Yamaha grand piano in the music and art department's building on campus. I guess it sounding like a sequenced digital piano may not be a good thing.

I can say one thing though - my roommate is the best piano I have ever come into contact with, and in my opinion, skill-wise is one of the best I have heard. This is not a display of his best ability - this is something he made up on the fly to give to you guys just so we can improve the sound of the recording of the piano.

I won't kick you at all ;) - but I seriously appreciate your feedback!

Peace,
Craig
Click to expand...

Hey Craig, I heard some perfect glissando in the playing and that made me think I was listening to a quantized sequence of a digital piano.
No, that's not a bad thing, it's more like a compliment.

The balance is just fine with me, you did a good job. Piano recording is quite difficult and it depends on the sound you're after. For classical piano one needs a different sound from popmusic and jazz.

I was listening to an MP3 on cheap computer speakers, I would like to hear the wav on my huge IMF RSPM monitors for making a serious comment.

I think you did a great job.

Peace, Han
 
Wow! Yeah, he's got chops. (Does he have 3 hands?) The recording is definitely adequate to let the talent shine through. And that's the point isn't it? Balance on the instrument is good. And Han is right, any nitpicky thing that could be said about the sound (and that's not much!) might not be an issue if hearing it on a wav instead of MP3.
 
Thta's a great piano recording! I agree that the resonance of the piano body is missing, though. Your friend is a hell of a piano player!
 
Michael Jones said:
Nice recording.
LDC's can produce a really rich, lush tone, that's full and warm, and can exhibit all those qualities we strive for.
But this recording seemed to lack just a bit of lower frequency or bass detail.
Now, it could be the piano. Yamaha's are notoriously bright instruments. Or, it could simply be your mike positioning.
If you have time, and want to experiment, got to this thread, and read the 4th post down from the top.

I explain in detail how I positioned a pair of LDC's (in this case TLM103's) on a large grand piano, and there's a sound clip as well.

I have a single MXL V67, but as I only have one, I never tried it out on my grand. I'm willing to bet, that if you experiment with positioning using my measurements as a starting point, you'll achieve spectacular results!

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=1120233&highlight=TLM+103#post1120233
Click to expand...
Thanks Michael for the input - I will definitely experiment with your mic setup as your described in your post a while back. I actually wondered if the the MXL V67 would be a workable mic based on Harvey Gerst's comparison between that mic and the TLM-103. I actually believe I did read your post a while back, and if that could do a good piano recording, maybe the V67 could too! That's how I made my decision, not to mention that I also needed another vocal mic.
 
Han said:
Hey Craig, I heard some perfect glissando in the playing and that made me think I was listening to a quantized sequence of a digital piano.
No, that's not a bad thing, it's more like a compliment.

The balance is just fine with me, you did a good job. Piano recording is quite difficult and it depends on the sound you're after. For classical piano one needs a different sound from popmusic and jazz.

I was listening to an MP3 on cheap computer speakers, I would like to hear the wav on my huge IMF RSPM monitors for making a serious comment.

I think you did a great job.

Peace, Han
Click to expand...
Hey Han, I would definitely appreciate it if you let me know how they sound out of your monitors. I have a Wharfedale Diamond 8 monitoring setup over here - but I don't have super experienced ears and I am sure the Diamonds are not IMF RSPM monitors!
 
This is a great piece - I'm listening and veering between Handel and Ben Folds as to the chief influence!

Michael is definitely your man for this type of recording, btw.

I agree that there is not enough of the rest of the piano in the sound - this might work really well in a mix where other instruments want the bottom end, but on its own there is probably some tweaking you can do. I don't know how to do it, because my own piano recordings are frankly crap, but my response was "have they left the lid closed?". I do really like the sound, might add a touch more reverb, and you've certainly got a great starting place. If you can throw up a pair of mics and produce that, just think where you can go with it!
 
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