M
monsterz
New member
EDAN said:
There is a huge difference between an "original" and a PE Modded 219. The sound file comparison was between a Standard Modded mic and a PE Modded mic. There are two level of mods available.
There is a huge difference between an "original" and a PE Modded 219. The sound file comparison was between a Standard Modded mic and a PE Modded mic. There are two level of mods available.
MichaelJoly
Banned
New Oktava MK-102, 104, 105 female vocal sound samples
Hi all,
Just adding on to this thread. I've got new samples up comparing the MK-102, 104, 105 and 319 to a Gefell M930 on female vocal:
http://www.oktavamod.com/audio.html
The 102, 104 and 105 are quite similar to the 930, the 319 is obviously a different sound but included for reference. Full details on the site.
Also added a male vocal U48 / MK-319 Floating Dome w Premium Electronics comparison. A male vocal U47 FET / 319 test is in the works. best, MJ
Hi all,
Just adding on to this thread. I've got new samples up comparing the MK-102, 104, 105 and 319 to a Gefell M930 on female vocal:
http://www.oktavamod.com/audio.html
The 102, 104 and 105 are quite similar to the 930, the 319 is obviously a different sound but included for reference. Full details on the site.
Also added a male vocal U48 / MK-319 Floating Dome w Premium Electronics comparison. A male vocal U47 FET / 319 test is in the works. best, MJ
tubedude
New member
To be honest, I think its a shitty comparison, because... you didnt truly mod the mic. I cant understand for the life of me why anyone would only go halfway with modifying the mic and then post samples against another mic. Now people will hear the mic in its current state, and see thats its been "modded" by Joly and assume thats what it sounds like. When in reality, it will sound much better with the circuit modified, which is truly the "mod" people are thinking and needing. I think Michael Joly is doing himself a disservice by offering the halfway modded package because people are hearing that and thinking its still not very great and not hearing what the mics really can do. There is a considerable difference, and I feel it should be all or nothing. I'll try to post some samples of a fully modded mic when I get a chance but it might be a while. I'm still adjusting and learning the mic and still havent formed an opinion yet, but I can tell you its a round sounding mic without a sibilance problem. I'll see what I can do later on.
S
soundchaser59
Reluctant Commander
Thanks for doing this.
I agree with SRR, I think the 319 sounds like a ribbon, and I like it better than the KSM. I wonder if the KSM44 would have performed better?? That's the one I've always been interested in hearing.
I think the 319 would be easier to mix, becuase it has (to my ears) less color to the voice, it sounds more natural to me. The Shure seems to be too bright and too present some how.... and that would make it more difficult for me to mix.
But to tell you the truth, I was more interested in hearing the before mod and after mod comparison.
I agree with SRR, I think the 319 sounds like a ribbon, and I like it better than the KSM. I wonder if the KSM44 would have performed better?? That's the one I've always been interested in hearing.
I think the 319 would be easier to mix, becuase it has (to my ears) less color to the voice, it sounds more natural to me. The Shure seems to be too bright and too present some how.... and that would make it more difficult for me to mix.
But to tell you the truth, I was more interested in hearing the before mod and after mod comparison.
C
chessrock
Banned
That 319 track wouldn't stand a chance in a busy mix.
.
.
MichaelJoly
Banned
tubedude said:
I'm not following you Paul. The reference Gefell M930 is stock, the Oktava mics have been fully modified with the changes described on my site - including the 319 which was a Floating Dome with Premium Electronics. Perhaps I need to be more clear in the accompanying notes.
tubedude
New member
Not yours... the original poster.
Yours make more sense because they are fully modded mics and give someone a clear picture.
Yours make more sense because they are fully modded mics and give someone a clear picture.
MichaelJoly
Banned
doh, my bad - thanks for the clarification
M
markitzero
New member
chessrock said:
I actually disagree completely. The 319 would fit perfectly in the type of mix I have in my head for the vocal part posted here. I think the thin sounding KSM32 would get buried due to lack of what I like to call, "Vocal Ass". The 319 has some ass to it, and I like the ass.
C
chessrock
Banned
markitzero said:
I kinda' thought it sounded like ass, too. So we're kind of in agreement, in a way.
.
M
markitzero
New member
chessrock said:
Somehow I knew that was coming.
Some of us prefer powerful vocals with body, some of us prefer vocals that sound like they were sung into a cylinder of tin foil. I can live with that.
R
Robert D
New member
Wow Chess, I've really gotta disagree with you on this. Forgetting that I have a 319, and have several times over "re-discovered" it, I listen to these clips and think the 319 is the most natural sounding of the bunch. You may be right in saying it wouldn't punch through a dense mix, but I don't hear a dense mix around that vocal anyway, and that in itself certainly shouldn't mean that a microphone sounds like ass, just that it's not the right mic for a given voice in a dense mix. On her solo vocal (nice, BTW), the 319 had body that the other clips didn't have. She sounded less recorded, and more in the room.
Did you like any of the other Oktavas?
Did you like any of the other Oktavas?
kojdogg
bollocks redux!
Tubedude-- Thanks for your fervent defense of and testimonials about the Oktavamod MK-219. I'm going to get one PE modded. FWIW Michael Joly has been very pleasant to deal with thus far and I'm looking forward to trying this out along with my heavily modded Uber-Nady (whenever that arrives), and other prized condenser mics (BLUE Blueberry, Karmas).
M
MCI2424
New member
cmaconsulting said:
You can't tell what will work in a mix until you hear it in a mix. That goes for any mic.
D
demto
New member
To cmaconsulting.
Iv'e listened to the two clips you posted.
The Octava has a fuller tone but is a little dark and seems to lack air in the upper
regions. Sounds a bit dull. However it sounds fairly natural and I get the impression
the singer is in the room with me.
The Shure sounds brittle and harsh and unnatural. You can easily tell the singer is
singing through a mic and is not in the room with you. Has a 'processed' sound.
I have a modified Octava 319 but I am trying to be unbiased.
I think that the Octava clip could do with a little EQ to add a little sparkle but I
doubt that EQ would save the Shure.
Iv'e listened to the two clips you posted.
The Octava has a fuller tone but is a little dark and seems to lack air in the upper
regions. Sounds a bit dull. However it sounds fairly natural and I get the impression
the singer is in the room with me.
The Shure sounds brittle and harsh and unnatural. You can easily tell the singer is
singing through a mic and is not in the room with you. Has a 'processed' sound.
I have a modified Octava 319 but I am trying to be unbiased.
I think that the Octava clip could do with a little EQ to add a little sparkle but I
doubt that EQ would save the Shure.
O
ozraves
New member
I know everybody wants something for cheap but I'm not getting the mod thing. I listened to the clips here and on the mod site. But, then again, I like the Marshall JCM800 to be stock. I don't want the modded one.
MichaelJoly
Banned
Steven, if you're "not getting the mod thing" perhaps I haven't explained OktavaMod clearly - better sound for a modest investment driven by a metaphysics of mic modification.
Originally, my goal was to maximize the performance of microphones already in the hands of their owners. This idea has found resonance with many people who share my urge to lavish attention on existing gear rather than buy new stuff exclusively. They enjoy an upgraded mics, a small respite from the cycle of gear desire / gear acquisition and the process of working with me. While I've written a lot about the technical details of my work the spirit of it resides in the metaphysics - the idea that existing gear can be loved and encouraged to perform better is a conscious orientation toward gear-as-brother, one worthy of respect and capable of evolution.
The Marshall JCM800 is an icon of tone. If I had one I would want it stock too. Russian manufactured Oktava microphones on the other hand, largely unavailable outside of Russia and the former Soviet Union for most of their 80 year history never achieved the ubiquity or status of the JCM800 or Neumann mics in the Western music industry. Instead, the inherent quality of Oktava mics and their freedom from being preserved as inviolate icons appeals to me. They are a great platform for enhancement and discovery. They deliver admirable sound at affordable prices and have a unique story. These are some of the things owners of OktavaMod mics get.
Originally, my goal was to maximize the performance of microphones already in the hands of their owners. This idea has found resonance with many people who share my urge to lavish attention on existing gear rather than buy new stuff exclusively. They enjoy an upgraded mics, a small respite from the cycle of gear desire / gear acquisition and the process of working with me. While I've written a lot about the technical details of my work the spirit of it resides in the metaphysics - the idea that existing gear can be loved and encouraged to perform better is a conscious orientation toward gear-as-brother, one worthy of respect and capable of evolution.
The Marshall JCM800 is an icon of tone. If I had one I would want it stock too. Russian manufactured Oktava microphones on the other hand, largely unavailable outside of Russia and the former Soviet Union for most of their 80 year history never achieved the ubiquity or status of the JCM800 or Neumann mics in the Western music industry. Instead, the inherent quality of Oktava mics and their freedom from being preserved as inviolate icons appeals to me. They are a great platform for enhancement and discovery. They deliver admirable sound at affordable prices and have a unique story. These are some of the things owners of OktavaMod mics get.
D
demto
New member
To Michaeljoly
I would be gratefull on your thoughts regarding one thing I have never been sure of on mods to the MK319
As you know the stock MK319 mics sonic abilities can vary from one to another due to quality control during manufacture.
One can sound good and the other not so good.
Lets say somebody has two stock Mk319 that vary in this way and decides
to have you fully mod them.[Mod the headshell and carry out PE electronics but retain the original transformer and capsule.]
Once this is done will both the mics sound very similar or will one of them
still not be so good as the other. Do you feel the variability problem is in the electronics or do the transformer and capsule also vary from one mic to
another ?
I would be gratefull on your thoughts regarding one thing I have never been sure of on mods to the MK319
As you know the stock MK319 mics sonic abilities can vary from one to another due to quality control during manufacture.
One can sound good and the other not so good.
Lets say somebody has two stock Mk319 that vary in this way and decides
to have you fully mod them.[Mod the headshell and carry out PE electronics but retain the original transformer and capsule.]
Once this is done will both the mics sound very similar or will one of them
still not be so good as the other. Do you feel the variability problem is in the electronics or do the transformer and capsule also vary from one mic to
another ?
MichaelJoly
Banned
demto said:
Demto, in my opinion the variation between any two MK-319 mics has more to do with capsule differences. (When I rebuild a mic using my Premium Electonics mod it is set up to within .1dB for gain across its bandwidth and less than .1% THD through the electronics with a 1kHz sine wave at a level representing 125dB SPL at the capsule) I wouldn't call this a "quality control" problem, but rather normal manufacturing tolerance variation. Let me explain.
Quality control often implies the manufacturer does not know how to evaluate product performance, doesn't care to or has lax standards. Oktava has set strict performance standards for its microphones that strike a balance between the demands of audio excellence on one hand and maximum manufacturing output for profitability on the other.
I can tell you that that Oktava capsules are tested against a reference standard multiple times; diaphragms are tensioned to an exact resonant frequency before being gold-sputtered and baked. The diaphragms are retested after baking. Diaphragms that do not fall within a strict resonant frequency band are rejected. The capsules are then assembled and checked for backplate-to-diaphragm capacitance (which is an indirect measure of sensitivity). Again, capsules must fall within established limits. Finally, the microphones are individually tested in one of two large anechoic chambers as a complete system and must adhere to the reference standard for output and frequency response.
Oktava is one of the very few microphone manufacturers confident enough of the quality and consistency of their product to provide individual frequency response charts with each mic sold. Now that I am a dealer, I log every mic I receive for inventory intended for modification. I do see some variation in the shape of the response curve in the high frequency range. Rather than this seeing this as problem, I find it gives me an opportunity to have a dialog with a client and make recommendations for a specific mic based on the clients needs. For example, I can scan my library of frequency response curves and choose a mic that follows the standard curve, has thinner or more pronounced bass, is maximally flat through the midrange, has a presence bump or perhaps has rising HF output.
I recently sold two MK-219 mics I had put aside because they had uncharacteristic presence peaks at 5kHz. Both clients told me they were getting good results in the studio with SM-57s on their vocals but were looking a mic with more detail but similar spectral response to the SM-57. They both love their "57-like" MK-219s. Tamra Spivey of Lucid Nation was one of the vocalists, you can read her story and hear audio at my site: http://www.oktavamod.com/news.html#Feb
All microphones have manufacturing-related variances. But most manufacturers only provide "idealized" or smoothed frequency response curves with their mics. With Oktava mics I know what the individual variances are and have the opportunity to fit them to a client.
Last edited:
D
demto
New member
Michael
Thanks for your reply.
Thanks for your reply.