Linkin Park: Hybrid Theory - mastered hot? I can't tell

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Dolemite

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I think I read somewhere, either here or on a newsgroup, that Linkin Park's CD, Hybrid Theory, was mastered at like +2 db. I was a little curious how this would affect the sound, so I got a few MP3s (I know, not the CD, but should still sound like it) and to be honest, I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. I really like some of their songs and everything that was distorted seemed intentional. What exactly should I be hearing that would characterize the hotter levels (besides loudness)? Did the mastering engineer pooch-screw it or was this intentional? Are they just doing this to be louder or is it more of an effect?

Now, I know one of the hallmarks of a professionally mastered CD is the loudness you get from limiting/compressing (often several times). I'm pretty new at all this, but since it seems to have worked out well in this case, why shouldn't you do the same thing? Somehow I know its generally not a good idea (especially without the high-dollar multiband compressors and peak limiters) but I want to know why.
 
I think it was me who mentioned that it was mastered at +2dB. Note that I was just talking about what I heard and I don't know anything about the actual levels. If you like that sound, go ahead and make your albums really crunchy.

I think the songs are great, I think the overall mix, though a bit vocal-heavy, is great, but I think it is distorted, and the distortion makes me want to play it a lot less. This is just the way mastering is going... it IS the loudest album I own, so the mastering engineer did an admirable job in getting it there, but I can't help but think it's beyond what is tasteful. However, it's probably a really famous, really rich mastering eng. with many gold and platinum albums to his credit, and I am nothing but a lowly listener.

To hear what I mean, check out "one Step Closer." It's evident right from the first time the first heavy hit... nice, crunchy full-band distortion.

Like I said, I don't dislike the album, I actually think a lot of the songs are really good, but it's very hard for me to listen to, and so it spends a lot of time out of my rotation. On the other hand, many other albums are very loud and not distorted, and I listen to them all the time. For example, the new PJ Harvey album, the new Radiohead album, etc.
 
I'm listening to that song right now, and I guess I do hear a little crunchiness going on, but if I didn't know it was there I think it would be very hard for me to distinguish from the band's distorted sound.

I'm guessing that if a CD of almost any other style of music was mastered this hot, the distortion would be obvious and sound pretty awful. The extra distortion just works with their sound. I wonder how they decided to do this...
 
eh non of this makes sence final mastering is done to digital - you can't get a plus anything level in digital, it clips out., at +2 all you'd hear would be a very loud crack.
What you can do it master to analogue with tape saturation - and then convert to digital at maximum odB.
But in that case - plus 2 is nothing.
When I use 2 " I normally calibrate the machine at plus 6 or even plus 9
In other words - yes, the track you mentioned might be recorded or mixed to hot, the rest is a bit of misinformation
 
skojo2,

Yeah, I realized later that my language was a bit off in this post. Of course you can't have anything above zero in digital, so I guess meant that the top 2 db of the hottest analog waveforms were squared off - if that makes any sense at all. I'm not sure if that's what's going on with this CD, but that's what I had read and when I listen to it I do hear some weird distortion. Any idea why they did this? From an audio fidelity standpoint this makes absolutely no sense. Seriously, unless it was brought to this level (with the distortion) before it was mixed, wouldn't the (too hot) mastering process change whole character and sound of the CD? I mean mastering, in the traditional sense, is merely meant to emphasize and enhance what is already recorded. In this case, assuming this was done in mastering, the mastering engineer would have had a huge affect on the final sound.
 
I don't know of one single mastering engineer who would have let stuff like that pass
There are still such things as pretty bad recordings :)
 
Yeah, it was very similar to the sound when I "for fun" took one of my songs, got it up to 0dB, then pushed the fader up another 2 dB. I know you can't get above 0db B in digital audio, but the effect I'm talking about is exactly that "squaring off" Dolemite mentioned. Sounds like shit, basically... if their music wasn't so heavy, it would be a lot worse.
 
"It is mixed at +2db" is a statement that contains no information at all. db is a relavtive measurement. Mixing something at +2db means its mixed 2db higher than something else. But if nobody tells you what that "something else" is, you still don't know what it means.
 
I don't think my post was enigmatic. I think I was perfectly clear. Yes, dB is a relative scale, but when you get to 0dB in digital, you are at the limit. What I was talking about, if you can't decipher it from previous, apprently difficult-to-understand post, was:

Say I have mastered a song, using all kinds of compression and limiting to get it nice and fat and loud, with the max levels -- in the digital realm -- at a peak level of 0dB. Of course, we can argue that EVERYTHING in the digital realm is at a peak level of 0dB, but I think you should get my point by now. Then, I go into my DAW of choice -- Pro Tools -- and I push the master fader 2dB. Voila, some nice painful digital distortion appears to enhance your listening enjoyment. Is that better reg?
 
Perfectly clear. And it's also clear to me that it would sound like shit. :) I simply don't believe it. Either they ment something else with "+2db" or its simply false. Thats what *I* think.
 
Your missing the point

The reason Your album is louder is not because The CD is 2dB louder. The reason it appears louder is because the Mastering (and possiblly Mix) Engineer has Compressed the Songs more heavily which has allowed the over all Volume of the songs to be pushed up so more of the song is closer to 0dB. The sacrifice of coarse is Dynamics. The more heavily you compress something, the less dynamic range it has. The distortion you guy are hearing is intentional (I have the album). The distortion is a characteristic of the compressor being used. When ever you added any kind of processing tool, whether it be a compressor, gate, or even EQ, you are adding distortion to your signal path.

You can not exceed 0dB in the digital domain. It is impossible. Any signal exceeding 0dB trying to enter the digital domain will simply receive a square wave (distorting the signal) beyond that point. +2dB in digital, Simply not possible.

As for the issue at hand. Sacrficing Dynamics can be very bad if not done tastefully. Dont you feel that Hybrid Theory is draining to listen to? Lack of Dynamics? Maybe this album has been over-compressed. But, ... there are no rules in mixing, thats the beauty of it.

Of coase the closer you get to 0dB the less quantisation distortion you receive but this is a whole other reply waiting to happen!!
 
Your missing the point

The reason Your album is louder is not because The CD is 2dB louder. The reason it appears louder is because the Mastering (and possiblly Mix) Engineer has Compressed the Songs more heavily which has allowed the over all Volume of the songs to be pushed up so more of the song is closer to 0dB. The sacrifice of coarse is Dynamics. The more heavily you compress something, the less dynamic range it has. The distortion you guy are hearing is intentional (I have the album). The distortion is a characteristic of the compressor being used. When ever you added any kind of processing tool, whether it be a compressor, gate, or even EQ, you are adding distortion to your signal path.

You can not exceed 0dB in the digital domain. It is impossible. Any signal exceeding 0dB trying to enter the digital domain will simply receive a square wave (distorting the signal) beyond that point. +2dB in digital, Simply not possible.

As for the issue at hand. Sacrficing Dynamics can be very bad if not done tastefully. Dont you feel that Hybrid Theory is draining to listen to? Lack of Dynamics? Maybe this album has been over-compressed. But, ... there are no rules in mixing, thats the beauty of it.

Of coase the closer you get to 0dB the less quantisation distortion you receive but this is a whole other reply waiting to happen!!
 
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