Line6 S/PDIF not compatible with Roland products

P

Peter Lancaster

New member
Just thought that all you Roland VS users ought to know the following bit of info.

I asked Line6 why I was having problems getting my POD Pro to sync with my VS-2480 when using an S/PDIF connection. According to Line6 "Our sync protocol is not compatible with Roland products, there is no fix for your problem."

By all accounts Roland is not the only manufacturer's kit that Line6 S/PDIF doesn't work with. I have also had reports of TC Electronics G-Major not working with a POD Pro.

I am pursuing this issue with Line6 and will update this thread with any further explanation I get from Line6. If you also know of equipment that won't talk S/PDIF with Line6 gear please let me know and I will pass the information onto Line6.

Pete.
 
I would like to think that using the AES/EBU output of the POD Pro into an M-Audio CO3 and converting it into S/PDIF would resolve the issue.

The only difference between AES/EBU and S/PDIF is the physical connector and some of the subcode information. Therefore the way the signals are synced is the same. Whether a CO3 resolves the issue depends on a couple of factors :

1) Does the C03 decode and reclock the data?
2) Have Line6 used separate (and different) circuitry to generate the S/PDIF and AES/EBU signals?

If (2) is true then the CO3 should work. If not and (1) is also not true then the fault should appear when using the CO3 - this would mean that the POD Pro AES/EBU interface is also incompatible with Roland products.

Unfortunately I don't have a CO3 (or Roland kit with AES/EBU) so I can't investigate this further. I'll see if I can find out though.

Thanks, Pete.
 
I had a similar issue several years back trying to get a Tascam DAT to digitally "talk" to the Alesis Masterlink....

Same story - Tascam said it was Alesis' non-standard implementation of the AES/EBU protocol and Alesis said Tascam was doing something bizarre - and neither wanted to pursue much further beyond a couple of random tests that proved nothing.

I didn't have time to wait for them to sort it out so I ended up trying the CO3 -- that solved it! I shouldn't have had to use it - they were supposed to communicate right out of the box -- BUT - that's not real life.... at least there WAS a solution!
 
Huh!? I use the S/PDIF out of my POD Pro direct into a VS1824CD with no problem. If I had a problem (which I don't), I'd take the S/PDIF out from the POD Pro, run it to the S/PDIF in on my TC Electronics M300, set it for "bypass" and then go S/PDIF out to the board. I wonder if it's just the 2480. So why does mine work?-Richie
 
The latest from Line6 is that the problem should affect the AES/EBU output of the POD Pro as well. This is what they said :

"The AES/EBU is essentially the same as S/PDIF, and yes you would encounter the same problems using the AES/EBU."

Richie,
You're not the only person not to have problems with a POD Pro and Roland kit, even the VS-2480.

This intreages me because I suspect that what Line6 are saying is not strictly correct. I'm interested to see if they can back up their position with a technical explanation or if they have to back track and say that it actually should work and that something else is the cause of the problem.

Line6 - I'm waiting.

Pete.
 
The latest update from Line6 is as follows :

"From what I can see, the problem seems not to be with the formatting of the digital data, but with the voltage. The output voltage of the POD Pro is well within the S/PDIF spec, but it looks like the Roland unit wants to see something hotter than we are putting out. As a workaround, we have successfully used an adapter cable to connect the AES/EBU output on the POD Pro to the S/PDIF input on the Roland unit."


I have passed the above information onto Roland UK who have passed it onto Roland R&D in Japan to explain why the VS needs such a hot S/PDIF signal. My understanding is that an S/PDIF signal should be between 0.5 and 1 Volt. I have also asked Line6 to confirm the POD Pro S/PDIF output voltage.

Pete.
 
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The latest from Line6 is :

Yes...your spec is correct [0.5 to 1.0 Volts], with the exception of + or - 20% [therefore 0.4 to 1.2 Volts]. The Pod Pro's S/PDIF functions at 0.48 Volts.

In addition the Roland units may require a bit of an extra boost on the S/PDIF since they sync unit to unit and that could be another factor coming into play.

I have passed this info onto Roland UK.

Pete.
 
Now you've got me real curious. I wonder if my POD puts out a little more, or the Roland accepts a little less? Thank God it works, and for everyone that has a pair that doesn't, I feel your pain. Just insert a TC Electronics M300 into the signal chain. I'm pretty sure it'll talk to both of them, the POD and the Roland. Call it a $200 "adaptor".-Richie
 
I suspect that the problem is being caused more by mains spikes than anything else. By powering on/off other studio equipment I can create the sync loss between the POD Pro and VS-2480. It may also be that the low S/PDIF voltage of the POD Pro doesn't help.

From Line6 :
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The question about why Roland uses a potentially hotter spdif spec would be better posed to the kind folks at Roland. Again...this is conjecture on our part, but it would make sense if someone was to try to use a consumer grade rca cable for spdif connections in syncing several units together.

Im not sure as to the part tolerance on the Pod Pro itself...suffice it to say that it should fall into our spec range and tracking down the exact rating would be a somewhat daunting task beyond my resources at present.
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From Roland R&D in Japan :
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Coaxial Digital input of VS-Series satisfies standards of S/P-DIF. If there is no problem with signal which level is converted by POD Pro from AES/EBU output, it is possible cause that impedance among Coaxial Output of POD Pro, Coaxial Cable, and Coaxial input of VS-2480 would not match.

We speculate "filtered mains supply" might mean Power supply with Noise filter, if the problem would solve with this device, there is possible noise from ground of mains might cause the issue.

Under ordinary circumstances Coaxial output is isolated by transistor, but we wonder if POD Pro would not be isolated completely. This idea would not certain without dismantling the user's POD Pro for inspection.
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I have passed this onto Line6 for their comments.

Pete.
 
I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the issue is in some way caused by mains spikes. Without a mains filter on the POD Pro I can't be 100%. However I am concerned that the POD Pro S/PDIF is so badly affected by mains spikes.

The latest from Line6
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As far as tracing down schematics and parts...Im afraid we do not have the time or resources available to do this effectively. We will notify engineering and should they be able to take a look at this they will. But they are also very busy as well and may take some time to respond.

Sorry to disappoint.
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Pete.
 
If it helps, I've had no problems using the S/PDIF from my Pod PRO to my TC Electrnoic Gforce (other than the fact that the Gforce won't sample higher than 44.1 :( ) I've also had no problems getting it to sync up with my new VS-2400CD. I'm using an RCA video cable for the connection too, one that came with an Apex DVD player!
 
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