wfaraoni
ear art's not a science
sjonesmusic; Nice playing and tone as well that vetta song is awesome!!. Ive got and ax2 and a pod 2, are you familiar with the difference between the ax2 and the vetta?
Speeddemon
New member
O.k., I will not just make a blunt statement like "Line6 sucks" and then leave it at that, I'll elaborate:
What's the problem with Line6 amps? (regarding Flextone I, II and IIHD)
When you create a sound on this amp (yes, with the cab sim off) on itself it sounds good. It actually sounds better on low volumes, unlike tube amps.
The problem lies here: as soon as you gig with a band, and bass and drums start playing, the sound of a Line6 amp looses punch and throw... It's like the sound stays IN the amp, for a lack of better expression...
With a real tube amp, and even some modern SS amps, you can dial in a bit more mids and maybe highs or presence, and without having to revert to your master volume, you'll still be able to cut through... Not with Line6. I've experienced this effect AGAIN (for the 9th time) yesterday. I was rehearsing in 2 different rooms with the same band. In the first room I played through a Marshall JCM900 Reverb. In the 2nd room I played through a Line6 Flextone HD half-stack.
I know it's highly arguable whether a JCM900 sounds good (I for one hate it. Too shrill, no balls, lacks some gain), but it was very easy for me and my pedals (most notably a H&K Tubefactor and DOD 250) to cur through... almost on the verge of piercing. I had to cut presence and highs on the JCM900.
With the Line6, I constantly had to adjust mids and highs. Yes the cab sim was off, and yes I tried different clean amp settings (Jazz Clean, Line6 Clean, Fender Blackface)...
On our college (Rockacademy, Tilburg) we also have other modelling amps, the Hughes and Kettner ZenAmps... MILES ABOVE LINE6. EVERY GUITARPLAYER WHO HAS COMPARED THEM AGREED!!!
Still, a long way to go in terms of dynamics and subtle nuances, but it's much easier to create a good sound with the Zenamp.
Also, I have extensively compared the POD to the J-Station, V-Amp2 and Genesis 3. Went home with the Genesis 3. Way better clean sounds, better AD/DA converters, better and more effects, warp function, etc etc.
But even now I'm starting to feel that the Genesis 3 is also lacking, compared to 'the real thing', mostly in terms of highs...
I'm very open to new digital technologies (tried the Fender Cybertwin once with a Strat, I went from Mr. Speeddemon to Mr. Dick Dale in a sec! Very convincing FENDER sounds... The Mesa and Marshall imitations just SUCK!), but there are still a few steps to be taken... Not for the average listener, but for musicians and guitarists in particular. We guitarists still feel (I hope) the difference between a good amp + some stompboxes and a digital modeller.
That said, I do believe that the Line6 DL4 Delay Modeller is a winning bet!
Also tried the Vetta once, indeed it is cooler than all the other Line6 stuff, but it's more geared towards modern and flashy, whereas his competitor, the H&K Zentera (not the ZenAmp) is more geared towards vintage and classic.
We (2 teachers and 12 students) once did a side-by side comparison between a real VOX AC30 and the Zentera's setting of the Vox... Out of 100%, the Zentera reached about 99,3%. The 0,7% missing was the 'je ne sais quoi'/schwung... Like 'organic-ism'...
That said, the Zentera has 11 amps and a whole bunch of effects, whereas the Vox is one amp, with I believe 2 effects (reverb and tremolo).
So if you play in a Beatles/Shadows/Queen alike (cover) band, you'll probably be better off with the Vox. If however you play in an allround coverband with some songs that need a Vox-y sound, the Zentera is tha shit, and believe me, unless Mr. Marvin and Mr. May are in the audience, no one else will miss the 0,7% 'organic schwung'...
Modelling has some way to go, side-by-side comps prove it, but when looking at the top (Vetta, Zentera), the differences become quite neglectible...
What's the problem with Line6 amps? (regarding Flextone I, II and IIHD)
When you create a sound on this amp (yes, with the cab sim off) on itself it sounds good. It actually sounds better on low volumes, unlike tube amps.
The problem lies here: as soon as you gig with a band, and bass and drums start playing, the sound of a Line6 amp looses punch and throw... It's like the sound stays IN the amp, for a lack of better expression...
With a real tube amp, and even some modern SS amps, you can dial in a bit more mids and maybe highs or presence, and without having to revert to your master volume, you'll still be able to cut through... Not with Line6. I've experienced this effect AGAIN (for the 9th time) yesterday. I was rehearsing in 2 different rooms with the same band. In the first room I played through a Marshall JCM900 Reverb. In the 2nd room I played through a Line6 Flextone HD half-stack.
I know it's highly arguable whether a JCM900 sounds good (I for one hate it. Too shrill, no balls, lacks some gain), but it was very easy for me and my pedals (most notably a H&K Tubefactor and DOD 250) to cur through... almost on the verge of piercing. I had to cut presence and highs on the JCM900.
With the Line6, I constantly had to adjust mids and highs. Yes the cab sim was off, and yes I tried different clean amp settings (Jazz Clean, Line6 Clean, Fender Blackface)...
On our college (Rockacademy, Tilburg) we also have other modelling amps, the Hughes and Kettner ZenAmps... MILES ABOVE LINE6. EVERY GUITARPLAYER WHO HAS COMPARED THEM AGREED!!!
Still, a long way to go in terms of dynamics and subtle nuances, but it's much easier to create a good sound with the Zenamp.
Also, I have extensively compared the POD to the J-Station, V-Amp2 and Genesis 3. Went home with the Genesis 3. Way better clean sounds, better AD/DA converters, better and more effects, warp function, etc etc.
But even now I'm starting to feel that the Genesis 3 is also lacking, compared to 'the real thing', mostly in terms of highs...
I'm very open to new digital technologies (tried the Fender Cybertwin once with a Strat, I went from Mr. Speeddemon to Mr. Dick Dale in a sec! Very convincing FENDER sounds... The Mesa and Marshall imitations just SUCK!), but there are still a few steps to be taken... Not for the average listener, but for musicians and guitarists in particular. We guitarists still feel (I hope) the difference between a good amp + some stompboxes and a digital modeller.
That said, I do believe that the Line6 DL4 Delay Modeller is a winning bet!
Also tried the Vetta once, indeed it is cooler than all the other Line6 stuff, but it's more geared towards modern and flashy, whereas his competitor, the H&K Zentera (not the ZenAmp) is more geared towards vintage and classic.
We (2 teachers and 12 students) once did a side-by side comparison between a real VOX AC30 and the Zentera's setting of the Vox... Out of 100%, the Zentera reached about 99,3%. The 0,7% missing was the 'je ne sais quoi'/schwung... Like 'organic-ism'...
That said, the Zentera has 11 amps and a whole bunch of effects, whereas the Vox is one amp, with I believe 2 effects (reverb and tremolo).
So if you play in a Beatles/Shadows/Queen alike (cover) band, you'll probably be better off with the Vox. If however you play in an allround coverband with some songs that need a Vox-y sound, the Zentera is tha shit, and believe me, unless Mr. Marvin and Mr. May are in the audience, no one else will miss the 0,7% 'organic schwung'...
Modelling has some way to go, side-by-side comps prove it, but when looking at the top (Vetta, Zentera), the differences become quite neglectible...
U
Unsprung
New member
Speeddemon said:
So, at least those of us that can't yet afford the top models would have some knowledge, in working with amp modelling, by the time we can (if we can ever) afford the good stuff, right?
Drummerbones
New member
I used to own a POD and it was adequate for recording & easy as hell for live shows. On the flipside, a buddy of mine owns a 2 x 12 POD amp......what a piece of SH*T!!!! The effects are comparable to the PODs, but the amp sound on this thing is horrible. No balls, no clarity, no Marshall half stack by any stretch of the imagination. This is only my opinion, but if you buy this amp, I suggest you also purchase a fifth of whiskey to easy your pain. 
T
Toker41
Better Than You
I've tried all the Line6 amps...
...THEY ALL SUCK!
Don't even mess around...BUY A BOOGIE!
...THEY ALL SUCK!
Don't even mess around...BUY A BOOGIE!
T
Toker41
Better Than You
I've tried all the Line6 amps...
...THEY ALL SUCK!
Don't even mess around...BUY A BOOGIE!
However, if you have your heart set on an amp like that, I would have to second the Fender CyberTwin. It really sound nice. And if nothing else...at least it sounds like a Fender.
But really....just go BUY A BOOGIE.
...THEY ALL SUCK!
Don't even mess around...BUY A BOOGIE!
However, if you have your heart set on an amp like that, I would have to second the Fender CyberTwin. It really sound nice. And if nothing else...at least it sounds like a Fender.
But really....just go BUY A BOOGIE.
wfaraoni
ear art's not a science
Hmmm? I wonder why so so many very successful pro's choose to use this so called line 6 junk for small venues, when they can clearly afford whatever equipment they need. Who doesnt own a pod, it seems like most of todays greatest guitarists DO?
Me, Ive been playing, well lets see now, 39 years, and I have had all kinds of amps, but nothing has ever had the quality sound and versatility of the line 6 ax2 for the $$$$. You can pick up a lightly used 0ne for $400, what else can you get for that kind of money? Imports from the east? A ragged out old fender thats been soaked in beer and carted through more than one rainy night before being dropped off the back of a van! Maybe a mexican strat. Give it a break all you bashers this is not the worlds best amp but for what it costs there is nothing that compares.
Would I pay $1500 for one, NO, but then again, I dont need to. Im not playing to arenas.
Is it a good amp for heavy metal/ grunge? I couldnt tell you, thats not my genre.Im 51 years Old. Is it good for blues,jazz, country, r&b or pop rock. Yes! Is 100 watts enough for a big Gig. Probably not!
does it have enough punch to make you deaf in a small place? definitely
In short $ for $ these are a bargain with many good sounds from one small amp. Are they all the best sounds? No
If your considering an amp for use as I stated above , go give one of these a listen. Also dont forget that you can tweak and load and save patches from other users or even pod users by interfacing via midi to you computer. That is a big plus which does not get mentioned or used enough.
Peace
Bill
Me, Ive been playing, well lets see now, 39 years, and I have had all kinds of amps, but nothing has ever had the quality sound and versatility of the line 6 ax2 for the $$$$. You can pick up a lightly used 0ne for $400, what else can you get for that kind of money? Imports from the east? A ragged out old fender thats been soaked in beer and carted through more than one rainy night before being dropped off the back of a van! Maybe a mexican strat. Give it a break all you bashers this is not the worlds best amp but for what it costs there is nothing that compares.
Would I pay $1500 for one, NO, but then again, I dont need to. Im not playing to arenas.
Is it a good amp for heavy metal/ grunge? I couldnt tell you, thats not my genre.Im 51 years Old. Is it good for blues,jazz, country, r&b or pop rock. Yes! Is 100 watts enough for a big Gig. Probably not!
does it have enough punch to make you deaf in a small place? definitely
In short $ for $ these are a bargain with many good sounds from one small amp. Are they all the best sounds? No
If your considering an amp for use as I stated above , go give one of these a listen. Also dont forget that you can tweak and load and save patches from other users or even pod users by interfacing via midi to you computer. That is a big plus which does not get mentioned or used enough.
Peace
Bill
T
Toker41
Better Than You
I don't know what you consider a "pro" to be, but I have NEVER seen any pro use a POD. I have been in many, many "pro" studio and have never seen a POD or any other LINE6 product anywhere near them. I've seen "pros" use Peavey because they got an endorsment, but that doesn't mean Peavey doesn't suck! Because a "Pro" does or doesn't use something doesn't mean it is good or bad.
Bottom line...if you're a 15 year old kid and can't afford the Marshall or Boogie....then have Mom and Dad buy you a Line6, but my advice would be....save your money for the real deal!
Bottom line...if you're a 15 year old kid and can't afford the Marshall or Boogie....then have Mom and Dad buy you a Line6, but my advice would be....save your money for the real deal!
Sjonesmusic
Member
Toker41 said:
I've got to disagree with your assessment of "pro" and what "they" might use...
Consider this...
I am 37, not 15, can afford whatever I want....and being a musician for 25 years...for the past 13 years, I have been VERY fortunate to have done absolutely NOTHING else but play, write, arrange, record...for my complete and total income, uninterrupted...
From 1990 until 2002 I used this rig:
Peavey Stereo Chorus 212>> '70s Silverface Fender Twin (with various rack compression, delays, etc..)
Heard in these clips:
Sjones fusion solo 1 - 1995
Sjones slow blues solo - 1998
Sjones fusion trading 4's w-sax - 1998
In 2002, I released my CD on Allan Holdsworth's label and on this track, one of many, used the POD (From that release, I received some great feedback from Steve Vai, Brett Garsed, Derryl Gabel, Shane Theriot, Greg Koch, Rusty Cooley...):
Muldar's Search ©2002 Scott Jones
In 2003, I re-mixed the CD for re-release on Progressive Arts Music, added some new solos and STILL used the POD, on this cut in particular:
Everytime 2003 RE-MIX © 2002 Scott Jones
I now use the Fender Cyber Deluxe>>Fender Twin and used this rig on 2 out of 3 bonus tracks for the CD re-release:
Convergence ©2003 Scott Jones
Chaos Theory©2003 Scott Jones
...and that rig, live, in these clips:
Sjones-blues with wah-2-2003
Sjones-Mercy, Mercy solo - VIDEO live 2002
Anyway, my point is...
Try keeping an open mind regarding "what the pros use", as I use what fits the situation, either out of its tone, its convenience, or just for something different...don't go merely slamming people's choices, not knowing the full picture...so, the POD doesn't work for YOU, that's cool...it works for a lot of people, though...PRO'S included...
...oh, and used all of this gear by choice, not because of any endorsements I may or may not have...
Peace,
Scott
----------------------------------------
My Fusion C.D. on Holdsworth's label, Gnarly Geezer
My Fusion C.D., to be re-released on Progressive Arts-Summer 2003
Soundclips from my Fusion CD
C.D. Reviews and Support
My VIDEO page-clips of me playing
T
Toker41
Better Than You
I did not attack anyone, and....
I still say they suck!
He asked for an opinion, and I gave him one. Are you ok? Maybe I need to smoke some of my prozac with ya? You must be one of those frustrated artist?
I still say they suck!
He asked for an opinion, and I gave him one. Are you ok? Maybe I need to smoke some of my prozac with ya? You must be one of those frustrated artist?
wfaraoni
ear art's not a science
Hey , Your a very good player , and Im not trying to say that your opinion is invalid either. I simply do not share it. I did not hear anything that an ax2 could not do on your links,but maybe you have better ears than the average guy, or perhaps a personal preference towards fender/ mesa boogie.
heres a quick link to one very Pro user with line 6 ax2 or pod use.. ever heard of the rippingtons? smooth jazz kinda thing
http://www.rippingtons.com/russequipment.shtml
heres the line 6 links, including some pros who may be getting paid endorsements, maybe not. some folks just like the line 6 sound and versatility.
http://www.line6.com/line6artists.asp?ID=78
http://www.line6.com/line6artists.asp?ID=102
http://www.line6.com/line6artists.asp?ID=102&action=1&item=10
Peace, my brother
Bill
, and Im not trying to say that your opinion is invalid either. I simply do not share it. I did not hear anything that an ax2 could not do on your links,but maybe you have better ears than the average guy, or perhaps a personal preference towards fender/ mesa boogie.heres a quick link to one very Pro user with line 6 ax2 or pod use.. ever heard of the rippingtons? smooth jazz kinda thing
http://www.rippingtons.com/russequipment.shtml
heres the line 6 links, including some pros who may be getting paid endorsements, maybe not. some folks just like the line 6 sound and versatility.
http://www.line6.com/line6artists.asp?ID=78
http://www.line6.com/line6artists.asp?ID=102
http://www.line6.com/line6artists.asp?ID=102&action=1&item=10
Peace, my brother
Bill
Sjonesmusic
Member
Toker41 said:
Once again, you make statements that presume to know more than you do...
I'm not even remotely frustrated as an artist or a human being...on any level...
...and no thanks, I don't need to resort to chemicals to empower me either...
My issue was simply:
You start off your "opinions", with blanket statements like: "they suck".......and..."I know what pros use", which led me to clarify for you that "pros" use what ever they want to achieve the end result....which might include the very products you said they "never used".....
I also said that if you didn't like the stuff, then cool, not liking it was not my point, it was your shooting down an entire line of amps with a misinformed generalization...
Its not like you offer a logical or technical "reason" for your preference, you just state "they suck"....and "pros would never use them"...
Which I logically stated was not necessarily the case...
Sorry if you found that offensive...
Peace,
Scott
Sjonesmusic
Member
wfaraoni said:Hey , Your a very good player
heres a quick link to one very Pro user with line 6 ax2 or pod use.. ever heard of the rippingtons? smooth jazz kinda thing
http://www.rippingtons.com/russequipment.shtml
heres the line 6 links, including some pros who may be getting paid endorsements, maybe not. some folks just like the line 6 sound and versatility.
http://www.line6.com/line6artists.asp?ID=78
http://www.line6.com/line6artists.asp?ID=102
http://www.line6.com/line6artists.asp?ID=102&action=1&item=10
Peace, my brother
Bill
Hey...I'm the one who provided the links, and they WERE in favor of Line 6...(the POD specifically)
I'm not the one who prefers Boogies....
Peace,
Scott
A
Analytical Man
New member
LINE 6 is the shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All of you who like the Vetta should really watch what you say about the POD's. The Vetta uses the same chip as the PODxt with what i believe to be all of the same sounds. And those of you who can't get good sounds from your Line 6 stuff either can't play, or your guitar sucks ass. I have yet to hear a bad sounding Line 6 amp. I played a Schecter Diamond series through my Spider 2x12 sounds awesome, through Flextone Fullstack sounds kickass, through my Pod XT sounds kickass. I really don't understand all of the negativity of Line 6 here, they are light years beyond most amp manufacturers today. And as far as Boogies go, they kick ass, but they aren't as versatile they are what they are. The sound is kinda one dimensional. And as an added note Dino Cazares from Fear Factory played Boogies exclusively until Line 6 came along. Then he dropped Boogies and went all Line 6...not because they paid him to but because they sounded better "To Him" and were more versitle. And what is the deal with all of this talk about Line 6 being cheap, save for better things. Line 6 Vetta Head 1599 new, two 4x12 cabs 1000-1200 combined new. That is 2700 dollars, and i don't think that is cheap!!!!!
All of you who like the Vetta should really watch what you say about the POD's. The Vetta uses the same chip as the PODxt with what i believe to be all of the same sounds. And those of you who can't get good sounds from your Line 6 stuff either can't play, or your guitar sucks ass. I have yet to hear a bad sounding Line 6 amp. I played a Schecter Diamond series through my Spider 2x12 sounds awesome, through Flextone Fullstack sounds kickass, through my Pod XT sounds kickass. I really don't understand all of the negativity of Line 6 here, they are light years beyond most amp manufacturers today. And as far as Boogies go, they kick ass, but they aren't as versatile they are what they are. The sound is kinda one dimensional. And as an added note Dino Cazares from Fear Factory played Boogies exclusively until Line 6 came along. Then he dropped Boogies and went all Line 6...not because they paid him to but because they sounded better "To Him" and were more versitle. And what is the deal with all of this talk about Line 6 being cheap, save for better things. Line 6 Vetta Head 1599 new, two 4x12 cabs 1000-1200 combined new. That is 2700 dollars, and i don't think that is cheap!!!!!
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F
Fusion2
New member
>Everything that breaks down has a reason. My point is the thing >shouldn't stop working 2 days out of the box.
of course having the amp built in the speaker cab itself effects the electroinics, vibration is the main issue and cause of damage i've always thought and experanced a # of time with fender amps, you see the techs keeping the amp heads off the speaker cabs today... vibration does electronic hardware no good at all IMHO....
just a thought...
of course having the amp built in the speaker cab itself effects the electroinics, vibration is the main issue and cause of damage i've always thought and experanced a # of time with fender amps, you see the techs keeping the amp heads off the speaker cabs today... vibration does electronic hardware no good at all IMHO....
just a thought...
Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
Two Against Nature/ Steely Dan. PODs were used for the guitar work on this Grammy winner according to Roger Nicols (the guy who got to take the Grammy home). PODs like any amp is a tool.Toker41 said:
T
Toker41
Better Than You
The guy asked for an opinion. I gave him mine. I said "I" have never seen a pro use one, I didn't say "pro's" don't use them. I"m also checking...hold on..........nope...he never asked for your opinion of anyones opinion, just your opinion of the product. You know nothing about me, or what I do or don't know. Your response is a personal attack. However, I'm done with this.....I've more productive things to do.
peace and have a nice day.
P.S. In the future, when someone says "it sucks", understand that it means "I don't like it" not "nobody is going to like it". I did not know that this would need to be explained.
peace and have a nice day.
P.S. In the future, when someone says "it sucks", understand that it means "I don't like it" not "nobody is going to like it". I did not know that this would need to be explained.
T
Toker41
Better Than You
Re: LINE 6 is the shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...and BTW...my guitars come from BC Rich, and Gibson custom shops!
Sjonesmusic...if my statement sounded anything like this asswipes....then I'm sorry, I never meant to sound that pompas.
How 'bout you go F yourself with that statement! To say you don't like something is one thing, to say that none of us can play when we haven't heard a lick from you......FU newbie!Analytical Man said:
...and BTW...my guitars come from BC Rich, and Gibson custom shops!
Sjonesmusic...if my statement sounded anything like this asswipes....then I'm sorry, I never meant to sound that pompas.
Sjonesmusic
Member
Re: Re: LINE 6 is the shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude, I'm sorry too...
I've just seen many statements from folks in forums likes this, that seem to be more harsh than necessary, about gear, about what is and what isn't good.......but stated as fact, it can come off as rude...
I wasn't trying to personally attack you, just hoping for the best in clarifying a couple of things, as I experienced them from my perspective...showing examples through the clips, of what I have used as a professional, through the years, directly related to the brands you had mentioned...
...And that, I hope, makes some sense...
I hope there are no hard feelings...
Peace,
Scott
Toker41 said:
Dude, I'm sorry too...
I've just seen many statements from folks in forums likes this, that seem to be more harsh than necessary, about gear, about what is and what isn't good.......but stated as fact, it can come off as rude...
I wasn't trying to personally attack you, just hoping for the best in clarifying a couple of things, as I experienced them from my perspective...showing examples through the clips, of what I have used as a professional, through the years, directly related to the brands you had mentioned...
...And that, I hope, makes some sense...
I hope there are no hard feelings...
Peace,
Scott
T
Toker41
Better Than You
Nah,
No hard feelings on this end. I was kinda in a bad mood when I typed each of those replies (except the one about that asswipe newbie...hehe). I can come of as "I am god, damn it!". Sorry. And fact is, I'm thinking about a POD. Only because I have not come up with a better way to record direct (which I don't like to do, but sometimes it needs to be). A couple of the tones were ok for "preproduction" work.
No hard feelings on this end. I was kinda in a bad mood when I typed each of those replies (except the one about that asswipe newbie...hehe). I can come of as "I am god, damn it!". Sorry. And fact is, I'm thinking about a POD. Only because I have not come up with a better way to record direct (which I don't like to do, but sometimes it needs to be). A couple of the tones were ok for "preproduction" work.