line-in vs mic'd amp

[KenekeBarnes]

I'm in a bit of a debate about recording electric guitar tracks directly into the recorder and adding distortion later vs. miking the amp to use the amp's (or pedal's) distortion. I'd like to model our recording on the live sound for the most part, but I've been told that it is best to record it clean and dirty it up later on, digitally. Now, I do add everything but distortion later - compression, chorus, delay, reverb, etc. - but I like the amp's distortion. Plus, I've never really used guitar distortion programs before.

I do see where this guy's coming from - he wants clean guitar for manipulation later down the line, in case we don't want the distortion. Fair enough. But I feel that there's so many reasons to keep at it the way I do, such as the energy level of everyone playing at once, playing the sound like you know you're going ot hear it on stage, etc.

I wouldn't even make an issue of it, except I happen to respect this guy, so maybe he knows something I don't. So is having a clean track that important for later usage that we have to take away the advantages of recording everyone at once?

Thanks.

 

[metalhead28]

Having a clean track for later manipulation is nice, but if you have the distortion and the tone that you want up front - record it. There is nothing better than that. You'll never get it to sound as good mucking about with digital effects.

What I do is record the mic'd cab so I get the sound I want, but I pull a DI at the same time so that I have that clean track for re-amping or whatever may come up. I think that's the best way to do it.

 

[olfunk]

i would totally agree with metalhead

if you can hear the distortion while you're playing, you'll play totally different to if you could hear it clean, and if its gonna end up with distortion on it anyway, then the playing that you do listening to the distorted sound is gonna be better than the clean one probably.

if you understand

i kinda do

 

[HangDawg]

if you can hear the distortion while you're playing, you'll play totally different

Not everyone is affected by this. I practice without an amp all the time. Sometimes I use a little battery powered 3" speaker amp. I doesn't make a shittin bit of difference to me.

 

[Fusioninspace]

I vote for using your effects while you record. I know I've read a zillion times how you can always add effects later, but I already know what I want it to sound like when I record it in the first place.

If I didn't have a day job, didn't have kids, and was in U2 or whatever, I MIGHT go in clean and mess with it later. But probably not even then.

 

[Supercreep]

my vote is to get the sound you want on the way in. Put the mix in front of the mic.

 

[jonnyc]

Not everyone is affected by this. I practice without an amp all the time. Sometimes I use a little battery powered 3" speaker amp. I doesn't make a shittin bit of difference to me.

I've recorded several kids that could not translate their dirty playing while hearing clean. For a very short time I was considering re-amping and had several kids give me di clean tracks along with their dirty tracks and almost every kid said they really wanted to hear the guitar dirty. All of them were very hesitant to even try.

 

[ggunn]

I'm in a bit of a debate about recording electric guitar tracks directly into the recorder and adding distortion later vs. miking the amp to use the amp's (or pedal's) distortion. I'd like to model our recording on the live sound for the most part, but I've been told that it is best to record it clean and dirty it up later on, digitally. Now, I do add everything but distortion later - compression, chorus, delay, reverb, etc. - but I like the amp's distortion. Plus, I've never really used guitar distortion programs before.

I do see where this guy's coming from - he wants clean guitar for manipulation later down the line, in case we don't want the distortion. Fair enough. But I feel that there's so many reasons to keep at it the way I do, such as the energy level of everyone playing at once, playing the sound like you know you're going ot hear it on stage, etc.

I wouldn't even make an issue of it, except I happen to respect this guy, so maybe he knows something I don't. So is having a clean track that important for later usage that we have to take away the advantages of recording everyone at once?

Thanks.

I would record it with the amp's distortion but without the rest (compression, delay, etc.) and add that stuff in the mix. IMO, time effects sound fine digitally but digital distortion sux compared to a smokin' tube amp.

 

[Zaphod B]

What I do is record the mic'd cab so I get the sound I want, but I pull a DI at the same time so that I have that clean track for re-amping or whatever may come up. I think that's the best way to do it.

What do you use as a splitter - a dual-output DI box (if there is such a thing)?

 

[89gtsleeper]

I think any professional will agree with this statement... Use DI for clean, while micing it with the distortion is your best end result. Period. Not only can your playing style change if you play it without the dstortion, but the amp won't make the same tone (especially tube amps), and depending on what you are playing, your sustain could be hugely effected without the use of distortion and god forbid you want some controlled feedback.... you get my point. The only time this won't work, is if you are severely limited in the number of tracks you have available (like a 4 track), which I doubt you are using.

 

[ocnor]

i would totally agree with metalhead

if you can hear the distortion while you're playing, you'll play totally different

I totally agree with that. It's especially true with lead work as you use the loudness of the amp to help create sustained notes and harmonic pinch feedback etc.. I guess if you only played music that consists of strumming chords with no leads then it wouldn't matter too much.

 

[Jouni]

I sure as hell make SURE I know what I want before tracking. That's why I play, and why rehearsing was invented.

After that, I record DI.. no matter did I want it clean or distorted. DI suits my gear.

I do not own a treated room, a really exquisite amp, guitar and all between. Plus them special mics and outboard gear etc... BELIEVE ME, a shure in front of any combo in your livingroom, ...is crap!!!!!!!!

But if ye got the "your sound" in your cab, mic it....

In a studio.


At home, DI saves you from a lot of hassle, noise, bleed, and various distractions.. (wearing a good set of closed headphones)


IMHO

 

[Zaphod B]

I do not own a treated room, a really exquisite amp, guitar and all between. Plus them special mics and outboard gear etc... BELIEVE ME, a shure in front of any combo in your livingroom, ...is crap!!!!!!!!

I beg to disagree. I have my Vox AC30CC in my bedroom - hardwood floors, hard walls, with just the bed and a little bit of carpet to intercept a few reflections, and various pieces of hardwood bedroom furniture scattered about - and I can get a very nice sound, whether its clean, nasty, or somewhere in between. There is some room ambience that gets recorded, for sure, but it's not detrimental to the sound.

I have nothing against DI - I do it myself using a Pod XTL, and there are times when that is the more appropriate solution.

 

[scrouch]

There isn't really a problem of not hearing distortion while you play if you run the guitar direct and put a distortion plugin on the channel while you're recording. The guitar will record clean but the live output will be distorted.

 

[Jouni]

I stand corrected.

I was hasty to say you can't get a nice sound...
You can get a nice sound. ..plus the room, your leg thumping in the floor, your cat and the lorry driving by...

My point, was to say that DI---> zero noise with mediocre gear, and a sound an average person won't differ from the mic'd Uberschall.

I've played guitar and bass for some twenty years, and couldn't differ a mic'd tube amp from a decent DI..

 

[Zaphod B]

I stand corrected.

I was hasty to say you can't get a nice sound...
You can get a nice sound. ..plus the room, your leg thumping in the floor, your cat and the lorry driving by...

My point, was to say that DI---> zero noise with mediocre gear, and a sound an average person won't differ from the mic'd Uberschall.

I've played guitar and bass for some twenty years, and couldn't differ a mic'd tube amp from a decent DI..

Yeah, recording in your bedroom has its hazards. My amp is up loud enough so that the S/N ratio is pretty high. Recording vocals is another story. I have to go through the whole house (pier and beam, lots of wood, the whole structure is live as can get) and turn off the air conditioner, fans, TVs, etc., and ask people not to yell.

I'll happily use my Pod XTL for DI when there's a sound that I can obtain from it that I can't get from my guitar amp, and I'll challenge anyone to tell the difference between the two.

 

[metalhead28]

What do you use as a splitter - a dual-output DI box (if there is such a thing)?

I have a DI box with a "thru" output that I can plug into the amp. I think those are pretty common.

 

[Nico2112]

QUOTE=metalhead28:
...What I do is record the mic'd cab so I get the sound I want, but I pull a DI at the same time so that I have that clean track for re-amping or whatever may come up. I think that's the best way to do it.

Very clever idea!

Cheers!

 

[gcapel]

Oh no not again....

On the topic of mic'ing cabs. What also sounds killer is splitting your guitar signal and distributing to multiple different amps(with the correct splitter). Track all the amps and blend the tracks in the mix. THen track it again the same way and pan the two takes accordingly. Rock.......

 

[riffy]

I vote for using your effects while you record. I know I've read a zillion times how you can always add effects later, but I already know what I want it to sound like when I record it in the first place.

My take on this is that you should not record with effects to tape. Some compression or a little overdrive to me is OK but effects, no. Reason being that to me you really can't tell what your sound is until you put it up against vocals, drums and guitars all together listening critically. At that point you might say, wow that chorus is just too much there or that phaser rate is too fast. You're stuck & there's nothing you can do about it except re-record. That's why I don't use effects to tape. Best of both worlds would be to record two tracks - one effected, one dry as mentioned.