recordman
New member
Said very well my friend. +1,000,000 on the live sound comment
Said very well my friend. +1,000,000 on the live sound comment
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
A lot of guys do...though you don't need to use a "vintage tube amp", as there are plenty of current production tube amps that actually sound better than some vintage stuff...that said, I'm not sure why you think vintage tube amps are "touchy, damage-prone"...?
There are 50 year old vintage amps that have outlasted the cheaper, current, assembly-line amps...and most will outlast many of today's pods!
Not to mention...you can repair and maintain a tube amp...FOR YEARS AND YEARS!
You can't do much with a broken pod except to throw it out.
Also...does anyone REALLY want to be on stage with a "pod"...instead of a nice tube amp...????
Heck...if you do that...you might as well get one of those robot guitars to go with the pod!
R
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
I'm pretty neutral on all of this. I use amp modelers extensively, for a variety of purposes, from pocket POD to Pod Pro, often through a power amp and a real cab, mic'd up. I also use real amps. Although the guitar amp modeler argument (an old one) is only partially germaine to this discussion, it is relevent.
First, when I dial up a POD model of a Soldano VLO Superlead, do I expect it to sound like a cranked-up Soldano? No. Do I care if it sounds like a Soldano? No. All I care about is- does it sound good, and is it useful for the song I'm working on? I *have* found that using amps, speakers, and mics improves the usefulness of modelers considerably. Then it involves moving air,room reflections, and the personalities of mics and preamps, instead of treating the modeler like a DI box on steroids.
As far as this mic thing goes, do I care if the model sounds like a KMS104? No. I only care whether it sounds good, if it usable for the song I'm performing, and the presence or absence of noise. Because it's live gear, reliability and robust build quality are a major factor. I also care whether I can plug that digital wireless doohicky into a KMS104, or a C535, or an SM7, MD421, whatever, and how it sounds when I do that. No doubt- an affordable wireless mic system that is not subject to RFI is very attractive. As far as modeling goes, the jury is totally out on whether the current level of technology will produce anything useful or not.
And Miroslav, I have to say that while I appreciate your point of view, be careful that it doesn't become religion, something that you can't argue with, and which is not affected by facts. It seems like if tomorrow, that modeler was built, which for a couple hundred bucks, could *perfectly* copy that Mesa, Soldano, Black Face, Roland, Vox, or whatever, you would still reject it because it isn't The One True Tube Amp of Antioch. Whether it ain't the real thing or not, modeling technology is improving every day, and I expect it will be around for years to come. In the meantime, if it *is* religion, here's a little pep talk, with apologies to Peter Jackson- "Now there may come a day when the power of vacuum tubes fails, but it is not *this* day. Today we fight!" -Richie
First, when I dial up a POD model of a Soldano VLO Superlead, do I expect it to sound like a cranked-up Soldano? No. Do I care if it sounds like a Soldano? No. All I care about is- does it sound good, and is it useful for the song I'm working on? I *have* found that using amps, speakers, and mics improves the usefulness of modelers considerably. Then it involves moving air,room reflections, and the personalities of mics and preamps, instead of treating the modeler like a DI box on steroids.
As far as this mic thing goes, do I care if the model sounds like a KMS104? No. I only care whether it sounds good, if it usable for the song I'm performing, and the presence or absence of noise. Because it's live gear, reliability and robust build quality are a major factor. I also care whether I can plug that digital wireless doohicky into a KMS104, or a C535, or an SM7, MD421, whatever, and how it sounds when I do that. No doubt- an affordable wireless mic system that is not subject to RFI is very attractive. As far as modeling goes, the jury is totally out on whether the current level of technology will produce anything useful or not.
And Miroslav, I have to say that while I appreciate your point of view, be careful that it doesn't become religion, something that you can't argue with, and which is not affected by facts. It seems like if tomorrow, that modeler was built, which for a couple hundred bucks, could *perfectly* copy that Mesa, Soldano, Black Face, Roland, Vox, or whatever, you would still reject it because it isn't The One True Tube Amp of Antioch. Whether it ain't the real thing or not, modeling technology is improving every day, and I expect it will be around for years to come. In the meantime, if it *is* religion, here's a little pep talk, with apologies to Peter Jackson- "Now there may come a day when the power of vacuum tubes fails, but it is not *this* day. Today we fight!" -Richie
ez_willis
.
this^^^^^^^^
ez_willis
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i use a hot rodded Vox AC30, soWhen you are in the room playing through an amp VS a modeler THAT'S when you hear and feel the difference, and if you can't notice the difference...then don't worry about it...use the modeler.
backatcha. 
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I'll make the same point again...it's not just the end-product sound...at least not if you are also a guitar player.
It's a lot....LOT...about how the amp reacts to the pickups and your playing.
Maybe one day they get a modeler to *sound* 100% like a Soldano Superlead...it will still never *play* like a real Soldano.
And then all this talk of "maybe one day"...well hey, the keyboard world has had real instrument sampling for like 30+ years...and STILL...a sampled patch doesn't quite sound like the real deal.
So...is an algorithm going to be able to sound more real than that????
I'm not holding my breath.
But I agree with your point that some things will sound "good enough" or "close enough"...but THAT is a different selling point than actual *modeling*, which implies that it can sound just like the real thing...
...at least that's how it is sold and why people on a budget go for it hook, line and sinker.
ez_willis
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kcearl
I see deaf people
Amp modellers are great, I know one of the best tones in the MP3 clinic is done on a modeller, and not even the best one for tone..and for us apartment dwellers they're essential
A mic modeller will be great as well...if its the right price and sounds good, Ill buy it...these things are fun as well as a tool
Cant see what all the fuss is about
A mic modeller will be great as well...if its the right price and sounds good, Ill buy it...these things are fun as well as a tool
Cant see what all the fuss is about
ez_willis
.
NO ONE here is suggesting that an $80 pod is going to react, feel, or sound like a Soldano. I've said from the beginning that THEY SERVE A PURPOSE!
holy cow, guy.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
i use a hot rodded Vox AC30, so
There you go then...you made one good choice.
I have several "decent" amps...and I can hear/feel a difference with all of them (it's got nothing to do with any "religion")...and that is why there are no digital amp modelers in my studio.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Not really any fuss...just differing views ( how original for a forum!!!
).I couldn't care less what anyone else uses...I'm simply stating my views about modelers.
ez_willis
.
repeatedly. .
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
And you keep going on about their "purpose"...repeatedly...so who's selling who?
Look...this whole thread originally centered around "Line 6 turning the mic world upside down"...and bottom line, they didn't do that for the amp world and they won't for the mic world.
There ain't a Line 6 amp (or digital pod) that I ever tried that was able to hide it's digital pedigree...that inlcudes the Spider Valve...and that's all that matters to me, not just some bedroom "purpose".
Look...this whole thread originally centered around "Line 6 turning the mic world upside down"...and bottom line, they didn't do that for the amp world and they won't for the mic world.
There ain't a Line 6 amp (or digital pod) that I ever tried that was able to hide it's digital pedigree...that inlcudes the Spider Valve...and that's all that matters to me, not just some bedroom "purpose".
ez_willis
.
And you keep going on about their "purpose"...so who's selling who?
i'm not selling anyone anything. i said they serve a purpose and you keep going on about how much you don't like them. i didn't say they serve a purpose for miroslav. i said the market has a place for them, and you said not in your studio. over and over again. dude. religion.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I'll light a candle and burn some incense tonight....
Oooooooooooohmmmmmmmmmmm...........
(Sonic preferences ain't go noting to do with religion.)
I'm on a mission from God to rid the world of all digital amp modelers!
TUBES RULE!!!
Oooooooooooohmmmmmmmmmmm...........
(Sonic preferences ain't go noting to do with religion.)
I'm on a mission from God to rid the world of all digital amp modelers!
TUBES RULE!!!
mattr
Resident moody teenager
Really? There are some damn good piano virtual instruments out there now. I'm no great pianist, but I've played enough pianos to know what's good and what's not. I don't think even the most discerning of pianists would complain about the sound of these virtual instruments...
Imperfect Samples - Braunschweig Upright
Pianoteq samples
Combine one of those with an expensive, accurately weighted MIDI controller and you've got a realistic sounding piano that responds to your playing like a real piano, and you can carry in a flightcase and a laptop bag... you would have to be crazy if you can't see a use for that.
R
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Praise the plexi. Testify, brother. And I didn't say "good enough". I said just "good". I stand by my claim that a great part of the "digital pedigree" that you refer to comes from using modelers as DI boxes. I agree that I haven't gotten any sounds I want out of a Spyder. I prefer the Peavey Vyper. I've had better luck using a Carver power amp and a wedge monitor, and leaving the cab model engaged on the POD. But I'm sure about this- if you want to get any kind of good sound out of a modeler, it takes a goodly amount of experimentation. Because they do so many things, it takes time to find out what they can do that doesn't suck. I also agree that most of it does suck. If you want to find the handsome Prince, you have to kiss a lot of frogs.-Richie
kcearl
I see deaf people
The one thing that generally comes out of these threads in other forums is someone will challenge the "purist" to pick out the real instrument/amp/whatever out of a bunch of wave files....and they generally cant
Id say the level of playing expertise has more influence on how "real" something sounds than anything else
Im not saying I wouldn't love several pianos and a plethora of boutique amps, Im just saying I never will, nor will I ever need to
Id say the level of playing expertise has more influence on how "real" something sounds than anything else
Im not saying I wouldn't love several pianos and a plethora of boutique amps, Im just saying I never will, nor will I ever need to
kcearl
I see deaf people
Alicia Keys (I know not everyones cup of tea) recorded her last album with her signature samples from NI.......damned if anyone here or who actually bought the album would be able to point them out...and they sell for $119