limiting settings?

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powderfinger

powderfinger

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i just got a new rnc compressor and i'm trying to find a good limiting setting with it......i'm recording a very dynamic vocal and the highs are still getting killed (as i don't really know what i'm doing)........so what might be some good compressor settings to really tame the highs?
 
Hey man... I suck at the actual recording aspect of recording (tracking) ...so one of my best friends is the multiband compressor...I'm sure you have about 12 of them in Cakewalk if you're still using that. Anyway, you can mash the crap out of any frequency you want, and leave the stuff that's okay alone.

For example, for sibilance, you can usually SEE the "sss's" on the track, right? Well, this takes a little time, but it's always good to know where your most annoying frequencies are. If you have some kind of an analyzer, run it over JUST one of the S's and see where it's peaking. My sibilance is most annoying at 4550Hz and @5600hz. I just run a compressor over the vocal track with some ridiculous ration (10:1, or maybe 20:1...you know, stupid big compression), but then limit the frequencies that will be compressed to 4500-6000. Bingo, the rest of the track looks and sounds pretty much the same, but the "S's are tiny now. That's basically how a de-esser works...I don't like most de-essers, b/c they cut too wide a path...like 4000Hz-12000Hz - well, that'll kill ALL of an S all right, but some of the frequencies in an S are damned nice, lol...and if you squash all of them equally, then what you have is still a harsh S, it's just a harsh S that you can't hear anymore, lol. Plus, most de-essers only use ratios like 3:1, which makes sense b/c the frequency band is so wide that anything more would basically work to erase the S, lol.

As far as the threshold setting, that totally depends on how hot you recorded the track. Try -30 to start out with.

My point is, it depends on WHAT highs you're trying to kill. You posted about vocals, and you said "the highs are still getting killed", but then you talked about needing to tame them, so I'm talking about sibilance. Same principal, though, if you want to tame a high hat in a drum loop that's fixed and you can't turn down. Find out which frequencies of the hat are annoying you and compress the crap out of JUST those, leaving the rest of the hat volume in place so that you don't get that false "muted" or compressed sound.

Oh, and turn the damned gain down on your preamp, lol. That's the best way to record a dynamic vocal...get real close to the mic on the soft parts, belt out the loud ones by moving your head back...so that you're kind of self-controlling the output (from you), but leave yourself enough room so that you don't have to turn anything down during the tracking...besides, the hotter your preamp, the more hiss you're gonna' have on the track.

I'm sure you know all this; I just like to hear myself type.
 
Oh, and don't tell Sluice, b/c he seems to have a philosophical position on compression ratios, lol (see his thread in the clinic), but I'm all for big compression ratios on a vocal. I get so tired of hearing tunes where the vocal is too loud for part of the song, and words drop out during others...screw that. Mash the damned vocal...(then De-Ess it) :D I may get a lot of complaints on my recordings, but "the vocals aren't sitting right" has never been one of them, lol.

Here's what I used on my last tune for the vox:

Compress 8:1 above -24 db
Attack: (1 ms) - i.e., very fast
Release: (50ms)
Output gain 8db


If you can limit the band, then make it squish everything from 70Hz to 3000Hz...that'll help keep it from adding 8db to an SSssss...

(See, I'm all about the "you CAN fix it in the mix" school of thought... Not by choice, but when you've got small children screaming in your "studio," and your time to record is limited, then you don't always have the luxury of spending 30 minutes on mic placement for a freaking guitar track. EQ and compression are my best friends in recording...I can even get by without reverb if I have to, but I use EQ and compression A LOT). Obviously, if you can, it's much better to track it correctly in the first place.
 
chrisharris said:
Oh, and turn the damned gain down on your preamp, lol. That's the best way to record a dynamic vocal...get real close to the mic on the soft parts, belt out the loud ones by moving your head back...so that you're kind of self-controlling the output (from you), but leave yourself enough room so that you don't have to turn anything down during the tracking...besides, the hotter your preamp, the more hiss you're gonna' have on the track.


Thanks for the informative post(s) chris.

I think this might be my answer......have the preamp turned really low, and then compress it on the way in with a hardware compressor...then take care of the rest with the methods you were saying.

I'm trying to re cut the vocal for the track i last posted in the clinic, 'just for you', that you heard.....i finally got a hardware compressor, so i'm trying to get it to where the choruses can get their highs w/o getting smushed, and then still having intimate enough verses.
 
The RNC is pretty smooth with the Really Nice setting on. Set the ratio about 2 oclock, attack 10 oclock, release 11 oclock. Adjust the threshold until you are getting about 6-8db of compression then raise the output gain so the level is good.

From there play with the settings to fine tune it. Too much breath and lip smack then turn the attack clockwise. If the ends of phrases are too abrupt then turn the release clockwise. Play with the ratio to see how it effects the sound.
 
chrisharris said:
Compress 8:1 above -24 db
Attack: (1 ms) - i.e., very fast
Release: (50ms)
Output gain 8db



Sweet mother of Son of Sam!!!!

I've never tried that much compression before:D
 
Jagular said:
Sweet mother of Son of Sam!!!!

I've never tried that much compression before:D

That's not that much at all. If he is only adding 8db of gain then he is probably only compressing about that much. The low threshold probably means he is recording the levels pretty low.

Although I could be wrong and that is a pretty damn fast attack :D
 
I don't like to use too much compression during vocal tracking, just enough to smooth out and limit peaks.

Once its compressed I'm stuck with it so I don't want so much compression that I can't use it.

I guess it depends a lot on the song, the singer, and the signal chain too!
 
You could try using 2 compressors in series - one set for gentle compression (low ratio and threshold, maybe 3-5dB off) and one set to catch the peaks (higer ratio and threshold, keeping the peaks under control). I've read about this technique in a few different places, supposedly very useful for very dynamic singers.

Steve
 
In fact, a lot of hardware compressors have this feature: a compressor + a limiter...

aXel
 
volltreffer said:
In fact, a lot of hardware compressors have this feature: a compressor + a limiter...

aXel

Would that be recommended on most vocal situations.. Right now I only have 1 RNC.. If this prevents my clipping while smashing a little in Supernice mode I guess Im getting a second RNC.
 
volltreffer said:
In fact, a lot of hardware compressors have this feature: a compressor + a limiter...

aXel

Would that be recommended on most vocal situations.. Right now I only have 1 RNC.. If this prevents my clipping while smashing a little in Supernice mode I guess Im getting a second RNC.
 
holy cow, why all the compression?

are you guys recording 16bit or something?

if you are recording analog, then you don't need so much compression because its ok to go past 0db.

if you are recording 24bit digital, then you don't need so much compression because you've got enough bit depth that you don't have to record hotter than hot.

most of the engineers that i've read up on say that they don't use much compression during recording at all. i know the live guys have to, but the studio guys don't.

the only time i really use any compression/limiting at all is when i'm recording either live drums or a bassist who plays funk. in which case i use a compressor+limiter with the threshold set high so that only the 'in-the-red' pops get compressed and peak limited.
 
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