Limiters

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frosty55

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I have just acquired a very cheap four channel compressor. Someone told me that you can use them as limiters as well. How would I set the controls to limit something like toms on a drumkit?
 
I'd advise against tracking with limiters and even anything more than very light compression, until you're experienced enough to know when you're gonna want them. You can always add that stuff in the mix, but you can't undo putting the comps and limiters on too heavy. during the tracking phase. I track everything 100% dry.
 
suprstar said:
I'd advise against tracking with limiters and even anything more than very light compression, until you're experienced enough to know when you're gonna want them. You can always add that stuff in the mix, but you can't undo putting the comps and limiters on too heavy. during the tracking phase. I track everything 100% dry.
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What he said.
 
Sorry I meant to say that I wouldnt mind limiting the toms in a live situation, not for recording.
 
Higher ratios = more "limting" of the dynamic range. Some say 10:1 = "limiter" (personally, I think 3 or 4:1 is rather extreme in most cases).
 
So all I would have to do is get the ratio at 10:1 and that would stop all the peaks going through the P.A. from the toms?
Wouldnt I have to do something wih all the other knobs, attack, release etc...?
 
frosty55 said:
So all I would have to do is get the ratio at 10:1 and that would stop all the peaks going through the P.A. from the toms?
Wouldnt I have to do something wih all the other knobs, attack, release etc...?
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You will simply be "CRUSHING" your signal if you do a 10:1 ratio. Like mentioned earlier, 3:1 and 4:1 are typically good. however, if you're clipping as bad as you are, I would recommend just tracking with a quieter signal. In a live situation, it's a mixture of EQ, Compression and gating.

I would seriously recommend reading up on compression. Read what attack, release, threshold, hard/soft knee, etc. is. They ALL will effect the sound.
 
frosty55 said:
So all I would have to do is get the ratio at 10:1 and that would stop all the peaks going through the P.A. from the toms?
Wouldnt I have to do something wih all the other knobs, attack, release etc...?
Click to expand...

I use compressors during live shows ..... Kick, Snare and overheads. But you are going to have to adjust them almost song to song unless it's raging metal.

I really use a compressor to it's fullest with the bass guitar. Tidys it right up and separates it from the kick drum tone.
 
If you're simply looking to protect the system, then sure - A high ratio with the fastest attack and a medium release -- It shouldn't ever engage - It should just be there to protect the system against F-Up's.

If you're looking to "pump" the system a little, a lower ratio (2 or 3:1) medium attack and release, set the threshold to knock off a dB or three here and there.

If you're looking to level the system, 1.1 or 1.2:1, slow attack long release, low threshold (low enough to knock off 6dB or so during the louder parts and it'll probably still be grabbing a dB or so during very quiet parts).
 
Thats the info I wanted thank you very much. Really speaking I wouldnt know if its best to limit the toms or maybe compress them so they definitely wouldnt peak out a driver in the P.A.
 
If you record at 24bit then it is pretty darn hard to clip. And if you record at 32bit float then it is pretty much impossible to clip!
So I would not bother with any compressor/limiter on the way in and just keep your gain down low.

G
 
If you record at 24bit then it is pretty darn hard to clip.
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It's just as easy to clip in 24-bit as it is in 8-bit. Full-scale is full-scale no matter the word length. The available dynamic range changes, but not the top of the scale... On top of that, the recording level should be dictated by the analog chain - Not the digital. If you're even in the same zip code as "clipping" (again, no matter the word length), you're overdriving the input chain (and likely running the voltage somewhere around 300% over spec).


Isn't this thread about protecting a PA system anyway?

(EDIT)

Yes.
 
A little thought about limiting on a PA system, I used to run my large system with a stereo limiter across the output. The limiter would just be floating into limit when the PA was being driven hard with the attack and release set fast. I found 2 advantages with this, 1 the PA seemed to be louder due to the peaks being under control and not using up amp and speaker headroom, and 2 the PA had some protection against stupidity by the musicians on stage and walk in operators.

I am not talking about smashing the mix but have the limiter set so that it just grabs the peaks. If I were you I would find this more useful than limiting the toms alone as the toms transients would be acted upon by the stereo limiter anyway and so fast that it would not effect the overall sound.

Alan.
 
frosty55 said:
Thats the info I wanted thank you very much. Really speaking I wouldnt know if its best to limit the toms or maybe compress them so they definitely wouldnt peak out a driver in the P.A.
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The best thing you can do is experiment and try all the combinations and then listen to what sounds best in each situation. The other thing to help is read up on everything you can find and then ask questions about the things you don't understand that you read about. Then take it to the systems and experiement and listen more. Practice doesn't make perfect, but it sure does help alot.
 
It's usually a setting like the infinity symbol:1.

That said, I have never had a compressor/limiter that I liked in "limit" mode.

I have mine setup as inserts (cubase 5 and pro tools allows you to setup hardware send and return busses as inserts), I don't record with them, just for mixin.
 
ecktronic said:
If you record at 24bit then it is pretty darn hard to clip. And if you record at 32bit float then it is pretty much impossible to clip!
So I would not bother with any compressor/limiter on the way in and just keep your gain down low.

G
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yeah ..... it's not about recording. It was a question about live work thru a PA.
 
Ok, I mistook this for recording, so sorry about that. :( :shame:
 
Still -- even if it was for recording, it didn't make sense.
 
I should have specified that I was talking cheapo compressor limiters. haha
 
frosty55 said:
Really speaking I wouldnt know if its best to limit the toms or maybe compress them so they definitely wouldnt peak out a driver in the P.A.
Click to expand...

I usually do this with gain-staging. During soundcheck, just ask the drummer to hit the toms really hard, and make it so that level isn't clipping.

If I only had a handful of compressors to use live, I'd probably want to run them on the vocal, bass, and if I had any channels left, a submix of the drums, before I'd think of putting them across toms. Clipping toms just usually isn't a problem as long as you have reasonable gain-staging.

But hey, try it out! If you like it, go for it.
 
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